Model 1885 Highwall @ "O,F," mark
I own an 1885 Winchester "high wall" rifle SN# 101,XXX. The gun has a 30" #3 Octagon barrel, single set trigger, tang sight, hooded adjustable front sight. The .32-40 caliber barrel has been shortened and rechambered for .32 Ideal at some time in the distant past. The underside of the barrel is stamped with the "O.F." marking which according to the Madis book indicates "outside fitting". It has been suggested that the "O.F." indicates a replacement barrel sent from the factory to a non affiliated person. I am wondering if this information is the correct reason for this mark or was the gun more likely have been sent back to the factory for rechambering and then the work contracted out by Winchester. If this was the case I am wondering why the factory would place such a mark on the barrel on the muzzle side of the "3" barrel weight stamp where it would be exposed in front of the forearm? The barrel has a ".32-40" marking under the barrel but on the top side only a .30-" It seems odd that someone would order a replacement barrel in .32-40 and then shorten and rechamber it. Also should there be any marks on the barrel to indicate this is the original barrel for the gun? Also the stock appears to be original to the gun as the wood grain and colour match the fore-end but the wood seems to taper in towards the steel about 2" before the crescent buttplate. Could stock be specially order to be thicker than a standard size? The bore is perfect. Thanks for any and all help.
In the last photo I just caught the stamped ".F" in the far left of the photo (sorry) the "O.F." stamp is just ahead of the "3" stamp. I hope that these photos will help. The alterations probably drastically affect the value of the gun but I am wondering by how much. Thanks again!
In the last photo I just caught the stamped ".F" in the far left of the photo (sorry) the "O.F." stamp is just ahead of the "3" stamp. I hope that these photos will help. The alterations probably drastically affect the value of the gun but I am wondering by how much. Thanks again!
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Bert H is writing/has written the book on 1885's, but is sadly computerless this weekend. Stick it out til Monday...possibly repost using an edit in order to avoid locking your post after 10 responses. He has worked with Cody for some time researching Winchester production, and will likely, if you provide pics, give you are definitive route to go....might want to get it lettered from Cody for that matter. Best,,,, 0 -
Thanks,I was hoping Bert would see my posting. I'll take some photos and yes I should have the gun researched by the Cody Museum 0 -
I will post a detailed answer sometime tommorow... it is late, and I am still way too worn out from my long trip home from Reno yesterday.
Edit: OK, here is the information from the warehouse ledger;
Received in Warehouse: April 30th, 1906
Type: Rifle
Caliber: 32-40
Barrel: 30" octagon #3
Trigger: Set
Sights: Graduated Peep, Wind Gauge globe
Remarks: None
Date Sold: May 1st, 1906
Order No: 52452
Based on your description of the rifle and the pictures, somebody other than Winchester cut the barrel down and rechambered it. The "O.F." marking is believed to be a barrel that was sold by Winchester to an outside source (e.g. a gun shop or gunsmith) and is believed to mean "Outside Fitted"
There is no indication in the warehouse ledger that your rifle was ever retuned to the factory for rework.
The Mid-range vernier tang sight on your rifle looks like it is original, but according to the ledger entry, it is not. I suspect that the person who entered it in the ledger made a mistake, as the "Graduated Peep" tang sight is very similar to the "Mid-range vernier" peep tang sight.
Because the barrel has been modified from original, that fact reduces the collector value by approximately 50%. Because the 32 Ideal cartridge is considerably less common than the 32-40, that further reduces the value (for the shooters).
In conclusion, your rifle actually has more value as a "parts" gun than it does as a whole gun (not that I recommend parting it out). The sights alone are worth at least $1000. The action w/single-set trigger is worth at the least $1200. The stocks & butt plate are worth a minimum of $500. If you add it all up, you would believe that your rifle is worth $2700, but the fact is that very very few people would be interested in it for that price. Most dealers would offer you about $1500 for it. Most Model 1885 collectors would not be interested in it at all (unless they needed it for parts).
Hopefully I answered all of your questions, but if not, please let me know.0 -
Wow - thats a beauty !
Looking forward to what Bert has to say............0 -
Bert, Please accept my sincerest thank you for helping me to understand the history and value of this rifle. When I purchased it from the widow of a personal friend many years ago I assured her that the gun I would never sell the gun so I must keep my promise.
Your advice does certainly raise some interesting questions however such as why the gun would have needed two barrels in .32-40 and a rechamber to .32 Ideal which from what I have read was a fairly popular target shooter caliber in the early 20th century especially for rechambering .32-40 guns which had the rifling worn. If only the gun could talk! Anecdotal history when I bought the gun was that it's original owner was very successful at local rifle shooting events so obviously this gun had a fair amount of use. I wish he had saved that original .32-40 barrel to screw back in!
On efurther question I have is; Is the O.F. marking common to all replacement barrels sold by Winchester and is it seen very often? Thanks once again.0
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