Problem with FFL transfer
Bought a firearm on GunBroker. Paid the seller who then shipped the item to my local FFL transfer agent. The seller is an out-of-state private individual without a FFL license. My FFL agent won't release the firearm to me because the seller did not provide them a copy of their drivers license. The seller has not responded to my emails or phone calls regarding this issue. Question: (1) Is it required that the seller provide a copy of their drivers license to my FFL agent? (2) Is there another way around this problem?
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No it is not required but I can understand the F.F.L. wanting to know from who the gun was shipped from. It is a common practice for the F.F.L. to want a copy of the sellers drivers license. The F.F.L. is doing nothing more than covering his butt if their was a problem with the gun. Did you tell the seller to send a copy of his license along with the gun?? If your F.F.L. made you aware of that then it was your responsibility to notify the seller that this was one of your F.F.L.'s requirements. 0 -
One of the most common of all topics and a constant problem for all concerned. Although there is nothing that says the dealer has to establish the identity of the seller, there is certainly nothing that prevents him from knowing exactly where the firearm he received came from and asking for photo ID is far from an unusual request. Right now there is nothing you can do but pester the seller to send his ID to the dealer and know that next time the EXACT procedures for shipping/receiving should be established well before the gun is shipped. 0 -
The following is my opinon, my advice and what I, personally would do if I were in your position:
From what you said, it sounds like your FFL holder ambushed you with this seller's driver license copy requirement. I am not certain if that is true, but it does not matter,
If your FFL holder will not release the weapon and there is no regulatory requirement for him to have a copy of the seller's DL, then your FFL holder is in the wrong here. Especially so if (s)he did not tell you up front that he required this in order to process your transaction. But, even if he did, he is in it now and must perform. The bottom line, is that his requirement is not a legal requirement.
My opinion is that you should demand that your FFL holder get the clock running on your waiting period and surrender the gun to you if you "pass the test" by not getting an "aww $#!+" from the background check. If he refuses, make sure you have your ducks in a row (i.e. do your research and make sure you are right) and threaten to report him to BATFE and litigate against him for the value of the weapon and transaction in small claims court.
All the above, of course, is if you cannot get the seller to respond and send a copy of his driver license to your FFL. Another thought is that you could suggest to your FFL holder that (s)he contact your local police to run the gun through the system to determine if it is stolen. If it comes back clean, your FFL holder has no right to not perform.0 -
I tell everyone that buys a gun and uses my shop for a transfer that I require an FFL or legible copy of a drivers license. If gun is shipped with out DL it is not my place to get a copy and I will not release gun. I want positive proof who the gun came from. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by XP100
I tell everyone that buys a gun and uses my shop for a transfer that I require an FFL or legible copy of a drivers license. If gun is shipped with out DL it is not my place to get a copy and I will not release gun. I want positive proof who the gun came from.
+1 on that.....I even have that requirement written on the bottom half of the FFL copy I send to the seller.... I know it is not required by "law"..but someone please tell me what I put in my A&D book for who (whom) the firearm came from????
JIM..................0 -
Well, actually, it's required by regulation.
That is, the regulation requiring all FFL's to create an entry in their "bound book" for the receipt of every firearm (see ATF P5300.4). The FFL is required, under the "received from" heading, to enter an FFL # OR a name & address. ATF, in the same publication, states a state drivers license is primary means of establishing identity. So, you can reasonably infer that a drivers license IS required if the shipper doesn't have an FFL; a hand written return address on a package does NOT establish the shipper's identity.
If I were a dealer, I would not want to have to explain to the fellas with the bulges in the cheap suits why I had bought or sold numerous guns to "Mickey Mouse" or "Donald Duck".
Neal
EDIT: Impasses are settled by an agent from the local ATF office. Hopefully the seller will see that it makes things easier for everyone if he cooperates before that is necessary.0 -
"If gun is shipped with out DL it is not my place to get a copy and I will not release gun. I want positive proof who the gun came from".............so, you have the firearm in your posetion but not logged in your bound book, now what? send it back to an 'unknown' person?. If I were the buyer, I'd just print out a copy of the auction and the 'contact' info and present that to the ffl. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Wolf.
The following is my opinon, my advice and what I, personally would do if I were in your position:
From what you said, it sounds like your FFL holder ambushed you with this seller's driver license copy requirement. I am not certain if that is true, but it does not matter,
If accurate it is, just my opinion, still the deficiency of the fellow buying the gun.
The fellow buying the gun has the responsibility of establishing with his FFL exactly the proceedures of the sale - will he accept a gun from a non-FFL and if so what documentation is required. It is the buyer's responsibility to inform the seller exactly what is required to include specific instructions and if a DL is acceptable, that the DL must be clear and readable and contain current information and nothing "blacked out".
Having said that, were it my usual FFL I'd be a little PO'd considering how much $$$ I've spent - actually short of a police evidence tag and grey matter my FFL will be helpful to me so maybe, if this buyer has a relationship this FFL will be helpful too. But if it's a "first time, one time deal" I'd understand the FFL playing strict.
If a buyer is surprised his FFL won't accept a gun from a non-FFL that's entirely his responsibility. It seems to be often overlooked and many assumptions made.0 -
So, who wins?
Seller won't get the gun.
Dealer is stuck with it. Or is he?*
Impasse
*If not logged in, can the dealer return the shipment as 'refused delivery', even though he'd be in effect, shipping across state lines to a non FFL?0
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