Rounds sticking in 610 cylinder
Hi Guys-I just purchased a S&W 610-2 and took it to the range today. I had some .40 S&W and some 10mm's in moon clips. The 10mm round is a 185g flat nose cone lead bulett over 8g of Unique. The .40 S&W was the same bullet over apx 5g of Unique. The gun was accurate, and functioned well, but extracting the empty moon clips was troublesome, with all of the 10mm's having to be tapped out. I noticed initially that when I was loading the 10's that I had to have the bullets well back into the case in order for them to seat in the cylinder well. I used a Lee 4 step process, ending with a factory crimp die, and the loaded moon clips in both calibers went into the cylinder very nicely. The gun was clean when I started to shoot, and everything else seemed to be great. Can you suggest a remedy for this situation? Thanks, Flapjack
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You may have to back off on the powder charge a bit. My Nosler manual shows 6.8 grains of Unique as Max. with a 180 grain bullet.
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Interesting - with jacketed bullets Speer is showing 8.0 of Unique as max, Hornady shows 7.1 as max in the 180/185 jacketed bullets. The 8.0 may be a touch stiff - are aqll the chambers clean or is there build up from using the 40s? 0 -
Dfletcher has a point-the gentleman I bought it from said he hadn't fired it in four years, and after my second shot at cleaning it, when I got home, I'm wondering how well he cleaned it before putting it away 4 years ago. I did my usuall cleaning when I got it, but not having cleaneed it before, I didn't know what I was looking at. I suspected a build up of funk myself today, so I just kept cleaning it until I could see what I was supposed to see. I had to use a lot more effort than I do on my other revolvers. I basically just kept going, and there was a lot of "stuff" in this gun. I appreciate any further thoughts. Alliant lists 8g Unique for 180g bullet, and I was right there, weighed it two ways and used Lee's terrific powder measure, very consistant. Thanks for the thoughts, and keep them comming. Flapjack 0 -
The load you are trying to use is for target shooting. Hence it does not make a difference about the amount of power, as long as it has enough juice to reach the target, and punch a hole in the paper and backing.
That being said... Just because a powder manufacturer lists a certain load, there can be things that are different...like the bullet, or primer, and/or case they used. Their loading technique, amount of crimp, bullet seating depth. DON'T start out at max, or even near max loads when working up a load for a new to you gun. That is why they list starting loads. You should go get some decent factory loads, and see if it does that same thing. Lastly, about the only thing I would keep with the Lee dies, is the factory crimp die, and toss the rest, and get a set of RCBS. Lee sizing, and expanding dies are JUNK. So drop your loads to starting, and work up; and adjust your loading process/equipment if needed.
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Flapjack,
Sorry if I offended you with my not using a suggestion, but that is from the wings of experience. I choose to call a spade a spade, an apple an apple, and an orange, an orange. I don't candy coat things. Plain old addage of getting what you pay for. There is a reason that Lee is less costly than most, if not all aother's. They have seemed to apply their attention to the end of the reloading process, where as it is needed every step the whole way thru. IMHO, for the average shooter, who is not into the bench rest game, or extreme long distance, RCBS is the best value for quality compared to the dollar spent. That is not saying that Lee might not be OK, for 80% of user's though.
Needless to say, it sounds like that is a pretty warm load for a lead bullet that is not gas checked in a 10mm Norma.
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1KYDSTR,
Not trying to be a snob, but with my limited 35 years in the reloading field, I have learned several lessons. A lot of them in my younger years, where I couldn't afford everything I ever wanted. One lesson was to "measure twice, and cut once". In other words, if you don't have enough to get what you want, don't get something inferrior, just to say you have one, and you will get what you want later. That does two things...one; gives you something inferrior, and that the majority of the people are not willing to buy when it is new, let alone used. That equivilates to money down the drain, that can be better spent on powder, primer's, bullets, and other equipment. Two, because one didn't have the funds to get the better equipment, most likely is the case, they surely are not going to have the measuring equipment needed to check that equipment, or production from that quipment.
It took me almost 10 years, but I did finally learn that I needed to be patient, and get what I really want, that will totally fill my needs. I am sorry to hear that you have RCBS, and use it at the 1000 meter range, but use your Lee stuff for lesser range work. It is OK for Lee to make things right if they are wrong, and RCBS along with the rest of the big names will too. However, you will more often have to have Lee make it right, thanthe rest of them...kinda like the taurus of reloading equipment, if you will. Like I did say...I prefer to measure twice, and cut once.
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Alliant only lists that load for their powder, and I am using winchester LPP which are for standard and magnum loads, and therefor a little hotter. Thank you for your "suggestion" regarding my equipment, I would suggest that you post your responses in that way. They would be a little easier for the other guy to considder, and thanks for your response. Flapjack 0 -
Tim. I agree with everything you said in your post right up to the "Lee sizing and and expanding dies are JUNK". I own Pacific Precision, Lyman, RCBS, Forster,Redding, Hornady and many others, and while I would never try to claim that my Lee's are as good as my RCBS or some other dies, they have served very well, and in the rare instance where I have noted dimensional irregularities, Lee has made it right by me. I have micrometer seating dies from RCBS for those rounds that require that kind of attention to detail, but frankly, my mil-surps don't seem to mind that there is a "lesser quality" die involved in the process. Couple this notion with the fact that there is about an 80% difference in the cost between Lee and RCBS in, say, 7,5 x 55 Swiss, and you see they (Lee) are presenting a perfectly competant loading system. If I am up at Lodi (our area 1000 meter range) I am using my RCBS stuff...if it is shooting my milsurps at McMiller near Eagle, I will use my Lee equipment. I also am a big fan of supporting local companies, and Hartford Wi is only a few hours north of me.
I base my opinion on nearly 40 years of shooting and reloading for some of the most obscure crap you've ever heard of! While I agree with you on most things Tim, I must say I feel you are being a bit of a snob on this one. Not everyone can afford solely RCBS or Redding products, and a mix of whats NEEDED for any particular application is in my opinion the way to go. As long as Lee is willing to correct any issues that may occur with their products I see them as a viable alternative to the higher priced dies that would be something of a waste for me in loading for my $100 SMLE or $85 M39. At any rate, no offense intended, but give us "bottom feeders" a break...we aren't made of money, and it's not like were discussing defensive pistols and the sanguinaiety of purchasing a Hi-Point to carry for protection!
Also, I agree with the simply backing off your load with the 10mm and comparing it to factory fodder. I have experienced issues in the last few years with load maps that are not unlike this issue your having...using factory as a comparitor was the best solution in the end.0 -
Thanks, and I have found it is always profitable to be polite, and constderate. We never know who we are corresponding with, especially in a "forum" such as this. Thanks, Flapjack 0
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