Explanation of receivers
Can someone give me a better explanation of upper and lower receivers and the difference between etc.
Thanks
Mike
Thanks
Mike
0
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With the AR style rifle, the LOWER is the actual receiver, being the serially numbered part, and legally it IS the rifle. That is the part that the trigger is connected to. The UPPER is the part that contains the bolt carrier group, and to which the barrel is attached. By legal definition, it is not a firearm, so you can have one lower, and several different uppers in different calibers. Is that what you meant? 0 -
Upper receivers house the bolt and barrel group. Lower receivers contain the butt stock, pistol grip and trigger group.
An A1 upper is the basic upper with the standard rear sight.
An A2 upper has the more advanced rear sight.
An A3 or A4 upper which are basicaly the same is a flat top upper with no rear sight. Is intended to be used with some sort of optic that keeps the optic on a lower plain with the barrel. You can still mount a rear receiver sight to a flat top when your not using an optic.0 -
Howdy Capt,
Another example for further legal explanation, take what 11b6r said, then reverse it for the FAL type rifles-- the upper receiver becomes the "firearm".
Per cruffler.com ... "Specifically, when a military FAL is imported, the original upper receiver is destroyed in accordance with federal statutes and regulations". Hence, the importing of FAL parts kits with lower reciever only, and USA manufactures of FAL uppers to build a complete FAL.
EDIT Mike, what you described for wanting to start out with ONE new gun, yet interchanbable with calibers down the road-- yes, can't go wrong with the AR platform. Use the search mode for this forum, as there was a recent discussion about .22-Long Rifle ammo combined with the AR platform.
The FN FAL Battlefield Rifle was chosen by most the 'Free World', as the 'Commmie-block' nations went the AK-47 route. These two were thee main contenders for years. Then we came along and jammed the plastic Mickey Mouse Rifle AR-15/M-16's down the throats of said Free World starting during the 'Nam days. That 'Mickey Mouse' moniker has greatly changed and for the good, starting with usage of correct burning powders in the 5.56 cartdidge, and other changes, to where it now has earned honest wide spread respect and success for all disciplines: military, police, target, hunting, tin-can kerplunkin', you name it.
45er0 -
Thanks for the answers. But. They bring on a couple of new questions.
1. What the heck is a FAL type of rifle and maybe some examples?
2. This one is a little more complex. I have had guns for many years, shotguns, several pistols, 22's and an old 30-06 that my dad won in a raffle probably 40 years ago. Its never been fired. Been this long, its gonna stay that way!
Now for the question. I would like to start collecting and shooting some rifles. My kids want me to get a decked out tacticle rifle of some kind. I figure it would be better to build one from the ground up. I know there are lots of options out there, just not sure what I should start with. I would like the higher power gun but I also think one that shoots the inexpensive 22's would be a good idea for the kids. Dont really want more then one gun at the moment so the idea I saw above about one lower with multiple uppers sounds good. How bout some ideas on where to start and how difficult is it to change from one caliber to another. I know its a lot but what do you guys think?
Thanks
Mike0 -
FAL means light automatic rifle- made in Belgium by FN (Fabrique Nationale) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL 0 -
Re: "I know its a lot but what do you guys think?"
The general ans here: "Quit listening to your kids".
You will purchase it, dear fellow - nobody else.
Buy something that YOU are comfortable with, & can afford. It's that simple.0 -
quote:Originally posted by CaptNewbie
Can someone give me a better explanation of upper and lower receivers and the difference between etc.
Thanks
Mike
Better than what?
The receiver is the part of any gun that is legally considered the "gun". The receiver generally is the central part that holds the barrel in place and contains the action. It should have a serial number on it.
Legally speaking, a gun can only have one "receiver", though guns certainly can have more than one hollow bit that contain moving parts and/or the barrel.
This is a "bare" AR-15 receiver with no other parts:
These run about $100 each, and to get one legally requires you to go through the same process as buying any other ENTIRE rifle.
Here is an ASSEMBLED AR-15 lower with receiver, internal parts (including trigger, hammer and safety) and buttstock installed/ Someone also put a 20 round magazine in place:
This is an AR-15 upper. While technically the upper attaches to the barrel and contains functional moving parts, and therefore could be called an "upper receiver group" most people do NOT call it a "receiver" since its not the serialized part legally recognized as the gun:
Hope that helped a little.
Edit: I thought this bit was obvious, but it may not be, so let me state it explicitly. Because the AR-15 "lower" (ie receiver, stock, and internal parts) contains the receiver, if you split the upper and lowers apart, the lower part is legally the gun.
With an AR-15 LOWER, you can put a wide variety of uppers in place, and in fact easily switch between uppers, should you have enough resources to buy them (again they run about $450 and up).
Since the uppers aren't legally speaking "guns", you can generally have them mailed directly to your home with no need for background check, etc, in just about all of the country.
So not only can you change barrel specs by swapping uppers (eg different barrel LENGTHS, barrel TWIST rates, stainless vs chromed steel, etc), but you can even change calibers.
Available AR-15 calibers include: .223/5.56x45; .22LR, 7.62x39, .243, 5.45x39, 9mm luger, .40SW, .45 ACP, etc. Plus there are a whole bunch of more specialized/less popular calibers: 6mm PPC, .300 Whisper, .50 Beowulf, .450 Bushmaster, etc.
Some of these are going to me more expensive and/or harder to find than others. Apart from special magazines, some may require certain modifications to the lower to run properly (eg the blowback operated pistol cartridges usually require a different hammer and/or magazine insert).0 -
quote:Originally posted by CaptNewbie
Thanks for the answers. But. They bring on a couple of new questions.
1. What the heck is a FAL type of rifle and maybe some examples?
This is an FAL rifle.
Also known as the FN-FAL, this is a popular modern European combat rifle:
FN-FAL is chambered in 7.62x51 NATO (roughly equivalent to .308 winchester), and has been used by many different Allied countries over the last 50 years.
Here's a cleaner-looking one with the nice folding stock:
quote:Now for the question. I would like to start collecting and shooting some rifles. My kids want me to get a decked out tacticle rifle of some kind. I figure it would be better to build one from the ground up. I know there are lots of options out there, just not sure what I should start with. I would like the higher power gun but I also think one that shoots the inexpensive 22's would be a good idea for the kids. Dont really want more then one gun at the moment so the idea I saw above about one lower with multiple uppers sounds good. How bout some ideas on where to start and how difficult is it to change from one caliber to another. I know its a lot but what do you guys think?
Very simple.
Get an AR-15 gun of your choice in .223. A basic gun will run you about $750 (give or take, depending on what configuration, brand, etc), and then you can hang any "tactical" thing off of it you like: bayonet, scopes, iron sights, holographic sights, lasers, flashlight, can opener, chainsaw, dog whistle, pom-poms, etc.
IIWY, I'd suggest that the most practical "tactical" setup is a simple (not seven-point tactical) sling and either just iron sights, or iron sights plus a simple red-dot sight. Less is more.
At the same time (or later) you can either get a .22LR conversion unit for this rifle (about $200) or, better yet, a dedicated .22LR upper designed specifically to fire .22LR rounds (maybe $450). Advantage of the .22 upper is that you can put totally different scope or sights on it, it won't clog up your "combat" guns gas system with lead shavings, and it will have a barrel rate of twist optimized for .22LR bullets instead of military .223/5.56x45 bullets.
Swapping uppers is a matter of removing two pins (which you can do with just your fingers) pulling off the old upper, putting on the new one, and replacing the pins. This takes about 30 seconds. . .less if you're practiced.
Edit:
Incidentally, kids LOVE high capacity guns that look like military guns, but at the same time, those sorts of guns also tend to promote poor marksmanship, since there is a tendency to shoot lots of rounds fast, instead of one at a time to make them count.
Best gun for a youngster new to shooting is probably a bolt action .22 (or even a single shot) and good ones cost quite a bit less than even a dedicated .22 upper.0 -
First, I dont mean to sound sarcastict or anything like that but I have two boys and three kids in the house. The boys dont tell me what to buy. I have about a dozen different guns, rifles, shot guns and pistols. This kid would like to have a cool tacticle rifle, one, because they can be good weapons and two, they look like a lot of fun for both the boys and this big kid. That said, time to move on.
beantown, great reply, pictures you included greatly helped in your explantion. I think this is the start of a great thread.
Guess what, explanation leads to more questions.
1. I have seen and heard many things about the lowers and I am not sure what to look for. Things such as pre ban, post ban, stamped steel, milled bar stock etc. What should I look for, what should I look out for. What brands are good, bad, terrible etc.
2. For accesorys, how are they mounted, do mounts come with other parts or need to be purchased seperatly. Are there standard mounts or variety, what should I look for.
One last note, the boys each have a 20 ga pump shotgun and old marlin semi auto 22's. I am looking for bolt action 22's for each of them. I agree that they need to learn to "shoot" and bolt or single shot rifles are great for this. Both are getting pretty darn proficint with the semiautos, two and half inch patterns at sixty yards with open sights and drive tacks with a scope at same distance. My old eyes cant match them with the open sights.
The tacticle rifle with semiauto is one that can bring on more shooting with less accuracy, but I dont want to build one as a match gun, I have always wanted to build one just cause of the coolness. Have never been able to justify having a combat gun till now. The kids are wanting one and it gives me an excuse to build one.
Keep up the great answers.
Thanks
Mike0 -
quote:Originally posted by CaptNewbie
1. I have seen and heard many things about the lowers and I am not sure what to look for. Things such as pre ban, post ban, stamped steel, milled bar stock etc. What should I look for, what should I look out for. What brands are good, bad, terrible etc.
"Stamped and milled" generally refer to types of Kalashnikov receivers, not AR-15 receivers.
There may be some differences between AR-15 receivers, both in terms of specific features of the receivers (eg how easy they might be to drop in full-auto parts) and in exactly how they are manufactured, but without getting into lots of ridiculous detail, for 97% of end users, most of the differences aren't going to be significant.
For your purposes, any military spec AR-15 receiver is going to be more or less the same as any other, and should work fine as a platform for recreational shooting, or emergency "tactical" use.
"Pre-ban, post-ban" refers to particular features of guns that were banned during the Clinton era gun ban. Even though that FEDERAL ban went away during the Bush administration, many STATES retain identical language in their STATE laws, and therefore NEW guns with certain features are illegal to bring into those States. The "bad" features include flash hiders, bayonet lugs, folding or telescoping stocks, etc. "Bad" states would include: NJ, NY, MD, MA, CA, and others.
BUT, in many of those states you can legally buy substantially similar new guns that lack the "bad" features (ie no bayonet lug, fixed stock, no flash hider, etc). For this reason, many of the bigger makers offer "pre ban" and "post ban" versions of their guns, with the idea being that if you live in a restrictive state you may be able to buy a "post ban" version.
Pre-ban/post-ban really doesn't make much of a difference unless you live in one of these restrictive states, intend to move to one, or intend to go shooting in one.
Brands that are reputable (in no particular order) include: Colt, Armalite, Bushmaster, Olympic, Rock River Arms, DPMS, Smith and Wesson, and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. There are a plethora of other smaller regional or "custom" companies that put out decent guns too (doublestar, Defensive edge, etc), so just because a gun isn't from one of these bigger companies, doesn't mean it can't be fine.
Brands to avoid would be: Vulcan/Hesse, Blackthorne, and (arguably) Century arms. These just have bad reputations for customer service, build quality, or both.
If you are looking at buying JUST a lower, I'd say the biggest thing is to make sure the STOCK is one you like. In your case, since kids of different ages might be using this, you'd probably want one with a telescoping stock, so you can use the same gun for all of them.
Also *IF* you think you may want to get a PISTOL caliber upper (like a 9mm luger), you need to get a LOWER with internals set up for that (or build it yourself that way).
quote:
2. For accesorys, how are they mounted, do mounts come with other parts or need to be purchased seperatly. Are there standard mounts or variety, what should I look for.
With the exception of bayonets, which generally mount on a standard bayonet lug, just about all the other military or "tactical" type accessories (eg scopes, lasers, lights) will fit onto a standard 1913 or "Pictaninny" rail, which you can see on the forearm of this rifle:
Some of the accessories will come with picatinny rail mounts built in (eg military style holographic sights), and some may require rings or other attachment mounts (eg scopes or flashlights). Whether or not the equipment in question comes with mounting rings or other necessary mount depends on what it is. Some does, some doesn't.
From your perspective, just make sure that *IF* you want to hang lots of worthless crap er. . .accessories off your gun, that you have the appropriate rail "real estate" from which to mount them.
If you know you want to scope the gun, you may want a gun with a "flat top" configuration that has a rail on top instead of a "carry" handle, since that makes scoping easier.
Note that any AR-15 can take aftermarket forearms with multiple rails such as the one depicted above. So if you find an otherwise great gun, you can always add rails later. Also, pretty much **ANY** part on an AR-15 can be swapped for some custom or aftermarket part, so you literally can build a gun in any configuration you like.
In general, though, its more cost-effective to buy something the way you want it, or pretty close, rather than buying something and swapping all the parts, or trying to build it from scratch from parts at retail price.0
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