sight adjustment 2
not wishing to hijack another topic. i remember seeing a representation of a pistol target with shot groups in different quadrants with respect to the bullseys. an explanation was by each group of what the shooter was probably doing wrong if this was where they were grouping. seems to me as if down and to the the left was the shooter pushing the gun forward in anticipation of recoil. do any of you guys know where i can find a copy of this target, i have misplaced mine.
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Howdy varian,
Here ya go....
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=290695
EDIT Thank you, Beantown-- as a south-paw, your link provided is appreciated. For (many) us lefties, lots of things are no-brainers in this right-hand world, while others require at least a moments thought to convert with our "right thinking" brain.
45er0 -
You mean this? 
If you're left handed, see here:
http://www.pistol-masters.com/images/left_hand_error_target_jpeg.jpg0 -
thanks. that is it. i was taught to overcome faulty mechanics first and only adjust the sights if necessary. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by varian
i was taught to overcome faulty mechanics first and only adjust the sights if necessary.Other factors can come into play with long guns, but in reference to handguns...
Too many don't grasp the concept and end up using adjustable sights as a crutch, chasing their group all over a target by altering sight regulation.
A shooter should begin with a fixed sight handgun that's mechanically zeroed at 25 yds. You shouldn't even consider the use of adjustable sights before learning to hit consistently well with a fixed setup.
Otherwise, a shooter may become capable of hitting well with his adjustable sighted gun after regulating it to his errors - but that'll be the only handgun he can hit well with.
Learn to shoot to the gun, don't cause the gun to shoot to you. You'll never truly be a good handgun shooter if you require one that's set up to accomodate your errors.0 -
quote:Originally posted by varian
thanks. that is it. i was taught to overcome faulty mechanics first and only adjust the sights if necessary.
Unless your groups are a million miles away from your point of aim, you probably shouldn't even try adjusting the sights until/unless you can consistently print small groups with the gun.
At that point, you know you are doing everything right, and if your small groups always locate away from your point of aim, you can adjust the sights so that the two coincide. If you're printing wide groups, how are you even going to know where to zero the sights to?
quote:Txs:
Otherwise, a shooter may become capable of hitting well with his adjustable sighted gun after regulating it to his errors - but that'll be the only handgun he can hit well with.
Learn to shoot to the gun, don't cause the gun to shoot to you. You'll never truly be a good handgun shooter if you require one that's set up to accomodate your errors.
I suppose there may be individual exceptions, but its been my experience that technical errors in shooting generally aren't precisely reproducible.
In other words, if you're jerking the trigger, or "bucking" recoil, or changing your grip while squeezing the trigger etc, you're probably not going to do that *exactly* the same way every time, and therefore you won't be able to reproducibly create small groups.
As someone who is left-eye dominant but right handed, I know that because my dominant eye is going to be sitting to the left of the sights with certain ordinary shooting positions, I'm going to consistently throw groups to the right unless I either close my dominant eye, or potentially assume a relatively unnatural shooting position.
This is potentially going to be true no matter which gun I pick up, though it is addressable by a simple sight adjustment.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
As someone who is left-eye dominant but right handed, I know that because my dominant eye is going to be sitting to the left of the sights with certain ordinary shooting positions, I'm going to consistently throw groups to the right unless I either close my dominant eye, or potentially assume a relatively unnatural shooting position.
This is potentially going to be true no matter which gun I pick up, though it is addressable by a simple sight adjustment.
I'm also primarily a right handed pistol shooter but left eye dominant. Despite what many think this is really not a factor in accurate handgun shooting.
The eye, rear sight, front sight and target must be in alignment in order to hit true point of aim. With all due respect, if your's is not then it's shooter error involving stance and/or arm position and you're using sight adjustment to accommodate for this.
As an example, despite my cross dominant eye I can pick up any good, full or medium size well regulated fixed sight pistol and hit to the same point of aim at 25 yds. no matter which eye/hand combination I use. The same can also be said for any shooter I've trained.
As an example, from time to time I run into a hard-head on the line who insists that nice group of their's is not centered because their sights are incorrectly regulated. My SOP is to take their gun and ring a 100 yd. steel silhouette a few times with it. They quickly begin paying closer attention, begin truly applying suggested corrective measures and will see their groups magically move to center where the bore and sights are aligned.
The bottom line is that on a correctly manufactured fixed sight pistol the sights are trued to the bore, so if the shooter isn't hitting point of aim with this setup they're committing error(s) of some sort. Based upon the center of their grouping - no matter how loose - these errors can be identified and corrective measures taken.
This is why I believe in breaking in new shooters on fixed sight pistols. If a shooter learns from the very beginning to shoot a handgun with sights which are actually trued to the bore they'll also be learning proper technique from the start.
This is the way I was taught from the time of my initial instructor training, which was conducted by a fairly prestigious and high speed outfit. It's worked well for me and many, many trainees over the years.0
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