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Do I have a "one of a kind" WWII pistol? #2

2xperthands
I have been trying to find out what kind of pistol I have. I have taken it to several gun shops, and gun shows.

Not one to date has been able to identify it! Everyone has said it must be really one of a kind!

I know my dad has had it since I was a young boy, probably 60 years.

He was a US Marine and served in the South Pacific in the battles for the islands.

The pistol barrel exit end was measured by one gun shop, and told me it probably shoots the Tokarev 7.62x25mm ammo.

It resembles a German Lugar, with this on the receiver: "CHUNG HSING KUNG CHAN ISRO"

It has a serial number: "8464" on the frame and receiver.

I was told at the last gun show to come on to this forum, and my chances of having one of you positively identify it would be great.

My email address is: xperthands@yahoo.com

I have some pictures I can send if you are interested.

I need a clip for it also.

Thanks,

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=24647&id=100001862424966&l=44d332b913
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • givette
    Front screw: Amateur installation.

    Hammer: Taken from a different pistol (it's small ring C-96 Mauser hammer).

    Conclusion: Rural district manufactured gun*. Assembled and fit with parts from several parent pistols.


    *Not uncommon for remote areas (Western China/Tibet or insurgent forces) to make their own weaponry. Joe

    EDIT:
    Sorry, I didn't answer your primo question.."Do I have a one-of-a-kind pistol".

    Yes.
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  • p3skyking
    Check your email.
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  • nmyers
    Joe is probably right. I was thinking it was put together in the Hindu Kush, a remote area between Pakistan & Afghanistan. Local "gunsmiths" there often stamp fake English markings which have mistakes in the lettering.

    Finding a mag will be trial & error. I usually see 1 or 2 dealers at local gun shows with a box of unknown mags. My guess is that a Chinese type 51/54 pistol may might work, or maybe a TT-33 Tokarev).

    Whatever you do, do not attempt to fire your pistol.

    Neal
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  • CDMead
    Looks like a copy of a Spanish Jo Lo Ar circa 1920.

    http://www.9mmlargo.com/joloar/index.htm

    IMHO, it's a homemade workshop special. I would suggest it has minimal value except as a curiosity. I certainly wouldn't shoot it without a complete check by a competent gunsmith.

    Good luck,

    Charlie
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  • Hawk Carse
    I would not shoot it period.
    There are several Asiatic regions that have produced such crude guns.
    Chinese words stamped in Roman letters are kind of a novelty; many of these knockoffs have attempts at Western trademarks.
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  • 1KYDSTR
    I agree, non-shooter strickly, and whatever mag fits in the hole would do for that. I wonder if there is some chance it was made in Formosa or other British colony or possession where the english language translation would have made sense. I mean, if it was made in China for a Chinese market would they not have likely used only Chinese charachters? If it was made in/for a British Commonwealth market/location then spelling out the phoenetic chinese inscription in English would make more sense.
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  • 32 Magnum
    I did a search on the Chinese words in latin letters - they refer to National Technical University (Taiwan/formerly Formosa) and "example" or "perspective"... With all the disparate parts melded together - this may have been a "project" or prototype/proof of concept gun.
    The suggestion that the Chinese words are presented "English" rather than Chinese ideographs seems to support the idea that this is a concept piece, made by an engineering/technical school student/department/group of engineers. Date/time line??????
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  • 1KYDSTR
    Thanks for doing the leg work there Mr Hauff...don't know why Googling the phrase didn't occur to me but I thought a former British colony/possession sounded like the likely source. I agree too that the seeming amalgam of parts pretty well guarantees it to be a pre-production/prototype/design project gun as it looks like a crude work-up with not a lot of thought put into finish. Looks like an Astra 400 frame (has that same slight up-angle on the front of the mag well...makes it look like the bottom of the gun and the barrel are running at differing angles)and an attempt at something ressembling a Beretta tip up action. I think the Jo-Lo-Ar would have been a bit too old a design to have been copied around WWII the way this one I believe was...does resemble it though!

    I think bearing this in mind it almost defines a "one of a kind" pistol. Cool as that sounds, I would not automatically assume it to be very valuable. If you had a Browning prototype for the 1911...you would be soon living the life of Reilley! A prototype from a really well known designer and or a very important gun in the history of weapons development would have REAL star power, but unless you can determine this was a prototype for some well known gun, or find someone who really wants a Formosan Technical Institute Prototype gun (I assume that to be a REALLY small market!) you would be hard pressed to find a buyer beyond the curiosity level.

    I believe the true value of this gun lies in the fact that your Dad brought it home from the Pacific Theater ( I am making a bit of an assumption here as you did not specifically state that...if he got it here in the states after the war I am obviously tilting at the wrong wind-mill again!) and it is a part of the family hisstory. If a bring-home gun, do you have capture papers? Those would be a boon! Anyway, thanks for sharing with us...sure hope you find a definitive answer and please post back or E-mail me to let me know if the bring-back thing is correct or all wet. Cheers!
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  • rufe-snow
    Quite a number of these Chinese made pistols have turned up over the years. No two are alike, but some of their basic design elements seems to be based on two early 20th Century European made pistols.

    These pistols are the 1900 Browning and the Star Model(s) 1908/1914. If you are able to pull up a photo of one of the early Stars models you will be able to see the vague resemblance between 2xperthands pistol and the early Stars.

    Interestingly the early Browning & Stars were chambered for the .32 ACP cartridge, but a number of the Chinese pistols were chambered for the .30 Mauser, AKA 7.62 X 25. Altogether a to powerful a cartridge to be fired in a unlocked, blowback pistol.

    EDIT #1, Here is a photo of a Model 1914 Star.

    star1_117.jpg
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  • 2xperthands
    Thank all of you for your research and responses. Very interesting!

    I do not have any intensions of ever shooting it.

    I will look through dads papers and see if I can find documentation on when he aquired it, and from where.

    I was always just told he brought it back in his duffle bag or personal belongings. A war souviner.
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