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Firearm sales and shipment.

Fundadtn
I am not looking to circumvent the law, I am just unclear on what the law is. First off since folks use to be able to sell, trade or barter all kinds of firearms, WITHOUT the gun hater nuts going earthquake on us, ARE WE STILL allowed to buy and sell at least SOME guns a year without having to become a licensed FFL firearm dealer???

Second, about 5 years ago I sold an old .22 caliber rifle to a guy I knew out in Texas. I disassembled the rifle, and sent the stock and bolt in one box, and the barrel/receiver in another. A local guy claimed I broke the federal law. I did know it was illegal to mail a complete firearm to an individual, but I felt sure I was within the law, when I took it down and made two shipments out of it. You can mail "gun parts" to individuals, right? I was told as long as the firearm was not capable of being fired as it was, it was legal to mail things such as parts and components of a gun.
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10 comments

Date Votes
  • Horse Plains Drifter
    quote:ARE WE STILL allowed to buy and sell at least SOME guns a year without having to become a licensed FFL firearm dealer???
    The short answer is: If you are engaged in the business of selling firearms, you are required to have an FFL.

    As to your second question, yes you did break the law. When you mailed the reciever(the part with the s/n)you mailed the "firearm".
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  • Nwcid
    If you are buying and selling guns to enhance your collection no FFL is needed. If you are buying and selling guns for any other reason you need an FFL.

    Yes it is legal to mail gun parts. ATF considers the receiver (ie serial numbered part) to BE the firearm. So yes mailing the receiver without an FFL is against the law.

    See the sticky at the top of this page it contains all that information.
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  • sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by Fundadtn
    I am not looking to circumvent the law, I am just unclear on what the law is. First off since folks use to be able to sell, trade or barter all kinds of firearms, WITHOUT the gun hater nuts going earthquake on us, ARE WE STILL allowed to buy and sell at least SOME guns a year without having to become a licensed FFL firearm dealer???

    Second, about 5 years ago I sold an old .22 caliber rifle to a guy I knew out in Texas. I disassembled the rifle, and sent the stock and bolt in one box, and the barrel/receiver in another. A local guy claimed I broke the federal law. I did know it was illegal to mail a complete firearm to an individual, but I felt sure I was within the law, when I took it down and made two shipments out of it. You can mail "gun parts" to individuals, right? I was told as long as the firearm was not capable of being fired as it was, it was legal to mail things such as parts and components of a gun.



    Here's how you get around that. You "gift" it to him. Meaning you give it to him without taking money for it. As long as he is a friend or relative and you know he has nothing that would prevent him from owning or possessing one. Whatever else transpires between you, transpires.

    The catch to that is obviously, you can't 'gift' more than once in a while. So don't make a habit of doing that. In the future, if you plan on selling a firearm, even to a friend, is to find an FFL where he is at and pay the transfer fee, then you know it's a done deal, legally.
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  • nmyers
    A local basketball player in Maryland tried to "get around" the firearms transfer law last year. He is currently serving a 2 year term in a federal prison.

    I hate prison food.

    Neal
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  • Herschel
    sandwarrier, You have given some very bad advice. Here is what the law says; The Gun Control Act of 1968, Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44, para 922 Unlawful acts. (a) It shall be unlawful-- (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that the paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation , or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes:............. end of quotation.

    As I have said before "Catching comes before hanging." but posting an admission on this forum to having violated the above quoted regulation can make it pretty easy to be caught.
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  • sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by Herschel
    sandwarrier, You have given some very bad advice. Here is what the law says; The Gun Control Act of 1968, Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 44, para 922 Unlawful acts. (a) It shall be unlawful-- (5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that the paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation , or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes:............. end of quotation.

    As I have said before "Catching comes before hanging." but posting an admission on this forum to having violated the above quoted regulation can make it pretty easy to be caught.


    Very bad advice in that I recommend he use an FFL? Or that your friend cannot accept a gift from you? He can. But, it has to be in the spirit of a gift, not a way to get around the FFL. That's probably why the guy in Neal's post is doing time. The guy wasn't really his friend. If it's your friend and you really intended to give him a gift, then that's what it is. Again, I did suggest he USE AN FFL ...did you get that part yet?.... If not re-read my post.

    You seem to be the classic LE type that wants to put someone in jail because you don't like their attitude or opinion. Remind me again how much you like government interfering with your life?

    Edit:

    Pretty easy to get caught? In what way? Would you not have had to have done this to be guilty of it? for the record I have not done this. I found out after having transferred a firearm to a friend that I could have simply given it to him.
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  • Herschel
    sandwarrier, In my comment about getting caught I was referring to the original post in which the poster mentioned taking the gun apart and sending it to the person in TX. In his case it is probably a moot issue as the statute of limitations probably would preclude prosecution after this long a time. What I referring to as your bad advice was your comment about gifting a firearm. The word gift is used in the statute describing prohibited actions. Your comment about the "gift" getting around the prohibition of interstate transfer is the only part of your post that I considered bad advice. I apologize for not being more specific about what I consider bad advice in your post.
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  • sandwarrior
    Herschel,

    I apologize for the insensitive response. Something was giving me fits here and I forgot to check my attitude at the door.

    Some time ago, I was under the same impression, that you needed a transfer to give a firearm to a friend. I know it's not a normal gift, but some people do give those to friends. Long story short. I transferred it. Then someone showed me Regs. that said you can gift a firearm to a friend or relative. Or, maybe I misunderstood that part.

    Anyhow, I went back to the ATF site tonight and there is nothing on giving a firearm as a gift. Not even a relative. So, you are correct. That isn't good advice. It would appear again to me anyways that there is no way around using an FFL for an interstate transfer.
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  • tsr1965
    If it goes across a state line, or thru the mail, it has to be sent to a FFL...PERIOD...unless you are sending it to yourself.

    Best
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  • 11b6r
    If transfer of ownership is across a state line- EXCEPT in the case of inheritance (Law has an exception for the executor of an estate) it must go to a FFL in the recipient's state. Mail does not come in to it- you can mail a shotgun or rifle to another in your home state. (as far as the Feds are concerned)

    To the ORIGINAL question before we started getting off track- You may buy and sell firearms to a resident of your OWN state (some state laws excepted) so long as (1) you do not have cause to believe they cannot legally possess that gun, and (b) you are not 'Engaging in the business" of buying/ selling guns. There is no magic number of guns, profit does not enter into it directly. It HAS been defined as "devoting time and attention to making a livelihood". If I buy 5 91/30s, keep one, immediately sell 4, I would have a rough time showing I did not 'engage in the business". I have a marlin 39A, find one I like better, decide to sell the first one- I am not engaging in the business. Have 5 Remington 550-1s, lose interest in Remingtons, decide to sell them- not "engaging. At a gun show, guy offers me a Colt 1911 for $100. I buy it, immediately offer it for sale for $600- you have "engaged in the business".

    This has been a somewhat murky area, please excuse the ramble- and a good morning to you all.
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