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  • Spider7115
    I remember that gun from your last thread: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=496479

    List it on the auction side for your lowest acceptable price with NO RESERVE if you want serious bids. I would also add "As pictured on page 100 in the book "The history of Remington Firearms" by Ray Martin Marcot."

    http://books.google.com/books?id=jAmkAvoUKIEC&pg=PA100&lpg=PA100&dq=wells#v=onepage&q=wells&f=false

    Note: Yours is a Model 1889, made from 1889-1909. The buyer will need an FFL or C&R license for purchase unless you can confirm it was made prior to 1899.
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  • 1KYDSTR
    From the pics it looks good but be aware that there has been something of a cottage industry for about the last 60 years faking these guns to varying degrees of accuracy; i.e. you will need a hands-on, truely expert opinion on these...someone like Phil Schreier, Greg Martin, Jim Supica, Phil Spangenberger are a few people that come to mind. Could be worth large money if authenticated by a reputable, well known appraisor of antique guns. Once provenance is established, you could either sell it here on GB with the expert appraisal or sell it through them at their auctions.
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  • Wolf.
    Not to toss water on your fire, but this weapon appears to me to have been doctored up to be a "Wells Fargo" artifact.

    Why....? several reasons, but none I wish to list or seriously argue about here...again, for several reasons. If it turns out that a knowledgeable individual or "expert" validates this gun as a legitimate WF artifact, I will be surprised, but still skeptical.

    1KYDSTR referred to a "cottage industry" in faking these guns. However, I would characterize this "cottage industry" as a thriving network of US and foreign crooks counterfeiting or creating from whole cloth, Wells Fargo stuff that never existed originally and passing it off as legitimate, real items (I am not referring to toys or novelty items which were never meant to be considered as real WF items). This crooked stuff ranges anywhere from badges, knives, tools, guns, signs, locks, office equipment and supplies, money boxes, commemorative medals, pocket watches, awards, envelopes, letters, documents, tickets, labels, bills of lading, receipts and other written records and documents, credentials, certificates, etc., etc., etc. .....the list is virtually endless. So much so, that many knowledgeable people hesitate to purchase any supposedly "real" "Wells Fargo" items.

    EDIT...EDIT
    fishperch/Phillip,
    RE: your reply further down:
    Let me be clear that I did not say that you are intentionally offering a counterfeit Wells Fargo item for sale. Your shotgun may be a legitimate relic. However, I have a skeptical view of it because of information I am aware of. Best to have an appraiser with a documented background in appraising Wells Fargo relics, including weapons, and who will provide you with his credentials, look at your shotgun and provide you with a written appraisal.
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  • Spider7115
    Just to clarify my reply above: Based on the book I linked, your shotgun is known as a Remington "Wells Fargo" model. That in itself does not prove that yours was ever owned, marked or used by Wells Fargo Express Company.

    I agree with the other respondents that it would take a qualified and recognized expert to authenticate the Wells Fargo markings. Without that expert authentication, those markings are subject to opinion and not fact.
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  • fishperch
    thanks for the post, First I want to say that Im not trying to sell a gun thats not real. I have no ideal of the gun value or if its a fake or not. I would never sell anything that was a fake. thats why I just want ot make sure it is or isn't what it says it is. I have no ideal how to get it appraised, or where to take it. Im in norht west alabama, would be willing to drive some where to have some one look at it.
    2nd can I list a gun on auction without being a dealer or have a firearms license?

    thanks for the help guys. Phillip[:)]
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by fishperch
    thanks for the post, First I want to say that Im not trying to sell a gun thats not real. I have no ideal of the gun value or if its a fake or not. I would never sell anything that was a fake. thats why I just want ot make sure it is or isn't what it says it is. I have no ideal how to get it appraised, or where to take it. Im in norht west alabama, would be willing to drive some where to have some one look at it.
    2nd can I list a gun on auction without being a dealer or have a firearms license?

    thanks for the help guys. Phillip[:)]

    You don't need a license to sell your shotgun but the buyer needs to have an FFL or Curio & Relics license holder to receive it.

    This page will help you list your gun: http://www.gunbroker.com/User/HowToSell.aspx
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  • andrewsw16
    Best of luck to you on the appraisal. But, keep in mind, even IF an expert says your gun is an imitation, that doesn't mean you can't sell it. Just disclose that it is an imitation when you write up the description. Some guys just want something that LOOKS original, maybe for a wall hanger or a cowboy action shoot. On the other hand, if it IS verified to be real, congratulations! [:D]
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  • hrf
    quote:Originally posted by 1KYDSTR
    From the pics it looks good but be aware that there has been something of a cottage industry for about the last 60 years faking these guns to varying degrees of accuracy; i.e. you will need a hands-on, truely expert opinion on these...someone like Phil Schreier, Greg Martin, Jim Supica, Phil Spangenberger are a few people that come to mind. Could be worth large money if authenticated by a reputable, well known appraisor of antique guns. Once provenance is established, you could either sell it here on GB with the expert appraisal or sell it through them at their auctions.


    Based upon Wells Fargo's website, it seems doubtful that ANYONE could authenticate Wells Fargo use, short of a paper trail back to the original user:

    "How do I know if the Wells Fargo markings on an antique shotgun are real?

    "Wells Fargo" marked shotguns have become a problem among collectors of antique firearms. In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available - it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms.

    Additionally, in recent years, many people have added "Wells Fargo" to actual antique weapons. All of this makes it very difficult to know whether any shotgun currently for sale was or was not used by Wells Fargo, regardless of the markings. For further information, you may check the book by James Bartz, Company Property, (the Westbound Stage, 1993), for sale at http://www.westboundstage.com."

    And I can't picture any W.F. office feeling they needed to stamp the stock in 3 places plus add a medal badge attached with 14 nails!
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by hrf
    quote:Originally posted by 1KYDSTR
    From the pics it looks good but be aware that there has been something of a cottage industry for about the last 60 years faking these guns to varying degrees of accuracy; i.e. you will need a hands-on, truely expert opinion on these...someone like Phil Schreier, Greg Martin, Jim Supica, Phil Spangenberger are a few people that come to mind. Could be worth large money if authenticated by a reputable, well known appraisor of antique guns. Once provenance is established, you could either sell it here on GB with the expert appraisal or sell it through them at their auctions.


    Based upon Wells Fargo's website, it seems doubtful that ANYONE could authenticate Wells Fargo use, short of a paper trail back to the original user:

    "How do I know if the Wells Fargo markings on an antique shotgun are real?

    "Wells Fargo" marked shotguns have become a problem among collectors of antique firearms. In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available - it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms.

    Additionally, in recent years, many people have added "Wells Fargo" to actual antique weapons. All of this makes it very difficult to know whether any shotgun currently for sale was or was not used by Wells Fargo, regardless of the markings. For further information, you may check the book by James Bartz, Company Property, (the Westbound Stage, 1993), for sale at http://www.westboundstage.com."

    And I can't picture any W.F. office feeling they needed to stamp the stock in 3 places plus add a medal badge attached with 14 nails!

    Yeah, but it's still cool! I'll bid on it when he lists it if he gives us the link. [:)]
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  • babun
    quote:Originally posted by Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by hrf
    quote:Originally posted by 1KYDSTR
    From the pics it looks good but be aware that there has been something of a cottage industry for about the last 60 years faking these guns to varying degrees of accuracy; i.e. you will need a hands-on, truely expert opinion on these...someone like Phil Schreier, Greg Martin, Jim Supica, Phil Spangenberger are a few people that come to mind. Could be worth large money if authenticated by a reputable, well known appraisor of antique guns. Once provenance is established, you could either sell it here on GB with the expert appraisal or sell it through them at their auctions.


    Based upon Wells Fargo's website, it seems doubtful that ANYONE could authenticate Wells Fargo use, short of a paper trail back to the original user:

    "How do I know if the Wells Fargo markings on an antique shotgun are real?

    "Wells Fargo" marked shotguns have become a problem among collectors of antique firearms. In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available - it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms.

    Additionally, in recent years, many people have added "Wells Fargo" to actual antique weapons. All of this makes it very difficult to know whether any shotgun currently for sale was or was not used by Wells Fargo, regardless of the markings. For further information, you may check the book by James Bartz, Company Property, (the Westbound Stage, 1993), for sale at http://www.westboundstage.com."

    And I can't picture any W.F. office feeling they needed to stamp the stock in 3 places plus add a medal badge attached with 14 nails!

    Yeah, but it's still cool! I'll bid on it when he lists it if he gives us the link. [:)]


    Here is the beginning of that WF quote..
    ""9. Did Wells Fargo produce belt buckles, chest badges.?
    From about the 1960s on there have been many items produced by others as souvenirs of the "Wild West." Among them are Wells Fargo marked belt buckles (often marked on the back as made by Tiffany), chest badges, Bowie knives, brass body tags, and stagecoach plates. There are also many items with a brass shield saying "Property of Wells Fargo San Francisco Division," often attached to an actual antique.

    None of these was made by or for Wells Fargo.

    In the 1970s, Wells Fargo did issue a commemorative belt buckle and a commemorative star-shaped badge. They are clearly marked on the back as copyrighted by Wells Fargo and Company.Back to Top
    10. How do I know if the Wells Fargo markings on an antique shotgun are real?
    "Wells Fargo" marked shotguns have become a problem among collectors of antique firearms. In general, each town's Well Fargo Agent bought weapons from local stores carrying whatever was available - it was not a central headquarters function. Just as with companies today, Wells Fargo's offices did not keep outdated records. Therefore, there are no comprehensive lists of Wells Fargo firearms.

    Additionally, in recent years, many people have added "Wells Fargo" to actual antique weapons. All of this makes it very difficult to know whether any shotgun currently for sale was or was not used by Wells Fargo, regardless of the markings. For further information, you may check the book by James Bartz, Company Property, (the Westbound Stage, 1993), for sale at http://www.westboundstage.com.""

    I have seen many things with a "Wells Fargo" shield or badge nailed on it, In my buying and selling of antiques. I have YET to see a real one. One of the worst is old kerosene lamps....everybody has one for sale from WF.
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