Convert '06 Ruger #1 to 300 H&H?-PART 2
The original thread
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=501139
Doc,
Remember asking this question?
quote:But would not a 30-06 also have less velocity from a short barrel? So if you want to maximize the performance of the short barrel, you need the bigger cartridge, no?
It was right directly above my reply...I didn't think so.
To answer your original question, but yes, it can be done, and has been done. You will need to modify the breech face and extractor also...hence the expensiveness. But since you know what you want, then by all means, have at it. That Ruger #1 RSI will more than handle your beloved 300 H&H. It will also entice you to think you are shooting more than a 30-06 too.
quote:TSR 1965- You are incorrect. In fact you made yourself EMPHATICALLY incorrect. A 300 from a 20" is more powerful than an '06 from the same barrel. That's a fact. Plus, a shorter barrel does not create more recoil other than a couple of ounces difference in weight.
And it really doesn't matter what you think my needs are.
Actually conversley, you are dead WRONG. That is not a fact, it is fiction of what you choose to believe. The full length magnum's performance is based on burning lots of SLOW burning powder in a long barrel. A longer barrel like 26-28 inches is needed to make any gain. That large quantity of slow burning powder, does absolutely no good when 20-30% is consumed OUTSIDE the barrel. Your beloved 300 H&H is only marginally more powerful than a 30-06 when shot out of such a barrel...like maybe 100FPS. The 30-06 being more efficient, and using medium burn rate powder's, will do better in your 20" barrel...especially when using factory fodder. If you were to load up some extra light target loads using Bullseye powder, or something similar, that is extremely fast burning, then the 300 H&H might be a little faster than the 06', but once again, only marginally so.
When factory fodder is used, the 30-06 with medium burn rate powder, and the 300 H&H with slow burning powder, then the edge goes to the 30-06...that is just "the way it is". There is no super magic, or voo-doo involved.
Lastly, I would invite you to be a little bit more representative of a gentleman, when in our forum, instead of snapping at everyone. If you wish to be a grouch, then by all means, stay over in the GD forum.
Best
http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=501139
Doc,
Remember asking this question?
quote:But would not a 30-06 also have less velocity from a short barrel? So if you want to maximize the performance of the short barrel, you need the bigger cartridge, no?
It was right directly above my reply...I didn't think so.
To answer your original question, but yes, it can be done, and has been done. You will need to modify the breech face and extractor also...hence the expensiveness. But since you know what you want, then by all means, have at it. That Ruger #1 RSI will more than handle your beloved 300 H&H. It will also entice you to think you are shooting more than a 30-06 too.
quote:TSR 1965- You are incorrect. In fact you made yourself EMPHATICALLY incorrect. A 300 from a 20" is more powerful than an '06 from the same barrel. That's a fact. Plus, a shorter barrel does not create more recoil other than a couple of ounces difference in weight.
And it really doesn't matter what you think my needs are.
Actually conversley, you are dead WRONG. That is not a fact, it is fiction of what you choose to believe. The full length magnum's performance is based on burning lots of SLOW burning powder in a long barrel. A longer barrel like 26-28 inches is needed to make any gain. That large quantity of slow burning powder, does absolutely no good when 20-30% is consumed OUTSIDE the barrel. Your beloved 300 H&H is only marginally more powerful than a 30-06 when shot out of such a barrel...like maybe 100FPS. The 30-06 being more efficient, and using medium burn rate powder's, will do better in your 20" barrel...especially when using factory fodder. If you were to load up some extra light target loads using Bullseye powder, or something similar, that is extremely fast burning, then the 300 H&H might be a little faster than the 06', but once again, only marginally so.
When factory fodder is used, the 30-06 with medium burn rate powder, and the 300 H&H with slow burning powder, then the edge goes to the 30-06...that is just "the way it is". There is no super magic, or voo-doo involved.
Lastly, I would invite you to be a little bit more representative of a gentleman, when in our forum, instead of snapping at everyone. If you wish to be a grouch, then by all means, stay over in the GD forum.
Best
0
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"I asked if it was physically possible and I get a bunch of guys telling me not to do it."............YES, this can be done. just a simple rechambering and MAYBE a small ejector mod. the Ruger "1 will handle anything short of the .50 bmg 0 -
tsr1965- Agreed, the magnum loses more with barrel loss but not enough to make the smaller caliber its equal.
Let's compare a load I put together using a 150 grain bullet. In the 06 the velocity from a 24" barrel runs 2,700 FPS. In the 300 it hits 3,300 from the 26" tube.
In my experience a cartridge like the 06 loses about 60 FPS for each inch of barrel loss. Let's assume the 300 fares worse, like 25% worse, or 75 FPS (I am making an educated guess on these numbers but I think they are close).
This means the 300 from a 20" barrel will move at 2,850. That's 150 MORE than the 06 from the 24" barrel. But if the 06 loses 240 with the shorter barrel it drops to 2460.
Even if we assume a 100 FPS drop per inch on the 300 (and I don't believe it would be that much) it STILL beats the '06 by 200 FPS from the 20" tube.
So, if both guns have 20" barrels the 300 is clearly superior. Even with a 24" barrel the 06 is topped by the 20" 300. I don't think there is any question about the 300 outgunning the 06 regardless of barrel length. The question is do you want a 20" Magnum even though it means sacrificing some performance? I do, but it looks like I won't have one. With the cost of conversion being too high for my taste, I am falling back to plan B, which is leave the 06 as is and start saving for a new #1 in 300 H&H. This is the Medium Sporter version with a 26" barrel. I may get the urge to cut this to 22" at some point as I don't think I want the long barrel.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Doc
tsr1965- Agreed, the magnum loses more with barrel loss but not enough to make the smaller caliber its equal.
Let's compare a load I put together using a 150 grain bullet. In the 06 the velocity from a 24" barrel runs 2,700 FPS. In the 300 it hits 3,300 from the 26" tube.
In my experience a cartridge like the 06 loses about 60 FPS for each inch of barrel loss. Let's assume the 300 fares worse, like 25% worse, or 75 FPS (I am making an educated guess on these numbers but I think they are close).
This means the 300 from a 20" barrel will move at 2,850. That's 150 MORE than the 06 from the 24" barrel. But if the 06 loses 240 with the shorter barrel it drops to 2460.
Even if we assume a 100 FPS drop per inch on the 300 (and I don't believe it would be that much) it STILL beats the '06 by 200 FPS from the 20" tube.
So, if both guns have 20" barrels the 300 is clearly superior. Even with a 24" barrel the 06 is topped by the 20" 300. I don't think there is any question about the 300 outgunning the 06 regardless of barrel length. The question is do you want a 20" Magnum even though it means sacrificing some performance? I do, but it looks like I won't have one. With the cost of conversion being too high for my taste, I am falling back to plan B, which is leave the 06 as is and start saving for a new #1 in 300 H&H. This is the Medium Sporter version with a 26" barrel. I may get the urge to cut this to 22" at some point as I don't think I want the long barrel.
I do say God Bless you and your affliction for the H&H. It is truly a classic cartridge that has endured ages. However, I don't totally agree with your number's. I know the 150 grainer in an 06' can reach 3000 FPS without much of a problem, and the 150 in a 300 WIN mag, can reach 3400FPS. But lets look at the factory fodder in the 180 grain weights. The 30-06 catalogs at 2700 FPS, and that is actually what I get from my PACT chronograph from a SS A-Bolt in 30-06, 22" barrel. The 300 H&H approaches 2900 with the same weight in a 24" tube. That is 200 FPS difference.
Using your same numbers 60 FPS/inch in the standard, and 75 FPS in the magnum, the 30-06 comes in at 2580, while the 300 comes in at 2600. Yes, the 300 is still on top, but the difference is almost non existant. Almost defeating the purpose.
I did not realize in your original post, that you wanted just the 300 H&H, I thought you were looking to boost the performance level significantly. If the performance level can be boosted significantly, with anything, it would be by efficiency of the short fat powder column. So, please excuse me, as I was trying to help you, not upset you.
The only way you can get exactly what you want, is to have it your way.
Best0 -
I just picked two loads I had been using. But if we go with max loads the 300 will still always beat an 06. Simple matter of case capacity. Just like the 300 WBY will top the H&H.
But I am not looking for max performance. I want a 300 H&H. Not the WSM, or WM, or WBY. So everyone trying to tell me what they thought I wanted was not being helpful. I asked a specific question about a particular rifle and cartridge. I was not soliciting opinions on which caliber was best. I made that decision already.0 -
It sounds like you're sold on the No1 but just a mention, if "the caliber is the thing" so to speak maybe T/C Encore is worth considering? You can get pretty much any barrel length from a maker like MGM & I'd bet Midway has 300 H & H barrels in stock. I have an Encore in 375 H & H - a 15" scoped handgun barrel, not sure why the hell I bought it other than I have a No 1 in the same caliber.
As an aside, my T/C rifles have always shot better than my No 1s - the No 1 is alot nicer looking though, like them both very much.0 -
FWIW: In the origional post, I mentioned that I have a model 70 with the standard 26" barrel and one that has been cut down to 21". Since this discussion involves, among other things, velocity loss per inch of barrel loss, I thought I'd post the following. With identical loads;
150 gr.=3400/3215, 37 fps per inch.
165 gr.=3288/3102, 37.2 fps per inch.
180 gr.=3020/2920, 20 fps per inch.
200 gr.=2986/2835, 30.2 fps per inch.
These results are all from handloads and are averages of several (at least 20) shots fired over Oehler 35P chronograph screens. While the rifles are similiar, of course no two rifles are identical. As has been said, I would have expected a greater velocity loss from the shorter barrel with a case as large as the H&H.0
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