Mosin Conversion
Mosin not Muslim!
Are conversions possible, like with the K98 Mausers? Or, would a lot work to the bolt or magazine, rails be needed? I was wondering if they could be rebarrelled into a caliber that has a lot of hunting ammo is available for. Like the mauser years ago, there are relatively cheap mosin surplus rifles out there.
Are conversions possible, like with the K98 Mausers? Or, would a lot work to the bolt or magazine, rails be needed? I was wondering if they could be rebarrelled into a caliber that has a lot of hunting ammo is available for. Like the mauser years ago, there are relatively cheap mosin surplus rifles out there.
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The Mosin has a lot of hunting ammo available for it. 0 -
Due to the odd sized case rim, not really. It is fine with any of the 7.62X54R based wild cats, and with some bolt face mods can probably be made to feed things like the .444 and .348, but options are limited. 0 -
Like Trap55 said, you can find ammo for hunting.
Many years ago there were some Nagant rifles reworked for 30-06. If you should ever happen across one do not fire it, it is too much pressure for the rifle.
If you reload with the appropriate pressure the Mosin Nagant is easily modified to use .308 cases but you cannot use rounds loaded to 308 pressures safely.
quote:Originally posted by jonk
Yow. Easily modified? I can't say how. It would at very least involve installing a new barrel and manufacturing a new extractor, and even then the mag would be useless, it would be a single shot only.
Pressure wise it would be ok with SOME .308 loads, but I agree, some of the .308s out there are a little hot for the action.
The Finns used the cartridge and rifle as the basis for Olympic grade match rifles. Soft point hunting ammo is easily available. I've seen outstanding accuracy from both Sellier and Bellot and Wolf Gold brass cased stuff. On the cheap, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, etc. are all pretty good, just non-reloadable. Easily minute of deer ammo.
Of course if you roll your own then you reach true potential.
All it takes is changing out the extractor to grip the rimless case. I don't know if the magazine will feed or not, the handloader who told me about it was a target shooter and he fired single shot from the bench.0 -
I have several Mosin nagants and they shoot great. I personnely like the 7.62x54R round has about the same ballistics as a 30-06/8MM and will do anything that you want at mid to long range. Would not want to be on the reciving end of one. Have you looked at www.cheapterthandirt.com, they have the bear ammo. I can not tell you how it shoots yet but I haer from some on here that it shoots good. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Henry0Reilly
Like Trap55 said, you can find ammo for hunting.
Many years ago there were some Nagant rifles reworked for 30-06. If you should ever happen across one do not fire it, it is too much pressure for the rifle.
If you reload with the appropriate pressure the Mosin Nagant is easily modified to use .308 cases but you cannot use rounds loaded to 308 pressures safely.
Yow. Easily modified? I can't say how. It would at very least involve installing a new barrel and manufacturing a new extractor, and even then the mag would be useless, it would be a single shot only.
Pressure wise it would be ok with SOME .308 loads, but I agree, some of the .308s out there are a little hot for the action.
The Finns used the cartridge and rifle as the basis for Olympic grade match rifles. Soft point hunting ammo is easily available. I've seen outstanding accuracy from both Sellier and Bellot and Wolf Gold brass cased stuff. On the cheap, Silver Bear, Brown Bear, etc. are all pretty good, just non-reloadable. Easily minute of deer ammo.
Of course if you roll your own then you reach true potential.
Edit for Henry's edit where he says "All it takes is changing out the extractor to grip the rimless case. I don't know if the magazine will feed or not, the handloader who told me about it was a target shooter and he fired single shot from the bench."
BAD idea. MUCH more to it than that. The Mosin case is a LOT fatter and 3mm longer. Would a .308 chamber and probably fire? Sure. It wouldn't be centered, wouldn't be supported, and would probably rupture at very least drenching the shooter in gas. Might a chamber adapter allow this? Possibly, sure. But as sits, The .308 will NOT safely fire from a Mosin chamber, extractor modified or otherwise. Even if the case did NOT rupture, it would surely stretch and swell severely, limiting caselife to one shot.0 -
quote:Originally posted by victorj19
Mosin not Muslim!
Are conversions possible, like with the K98 Mausers? Or, would a lot work to the bolt or magazine, rails be needed? I was wondering if they could be rebarrelled into a caliber that has a lot of hunting ammo is available for. Like the mauser years ago, there are relatively cheap mosin surplus rifles out there.
Possible. . .of course.
Cost effective? Not really.
As mentioned, the rimmed case design, split receiver and hard to remove barrel make rechambering Mosin-Nagant rifles into other calibers difficult.
The only common American caliber I've ever heard of a Mosin being rechambered to is .45-70. I don't know what was involved, but my guess is its probably easier/cheaper just to buy a whole other gun in .45/70. I think its also possible to rechamber to .303, though again, you might as well just buy an Enfield to start with and save a lot of hassle.
There is a case adapter that will let you shoot some sort of .32 pistol round from Mosin rifles, though you can't really hunt anything bigger than a groundhog with it.
For what its worth, just like the popular American .30-06 spawned a bunch of derivative "wildcat" calibers, there actually ARE a number of Russian/Finnish type "wildcat" calibers based on Mosin-Nagant actions and the 7.62x54R cartridge.
Unfortunately, going from 7.62x54R to some obscure Finnish wildcat doesn't really help you with your ammo problem!
But as mentioned, you don't NEED to rechamber the Mosin Nagant into anything. The 7.62x54R round is actually excellent, exactly as it is.
Commercially available hunting type ammo *IS* available for 7.62x54R from Norma, Winchester, and as the Russian "Brown Bear" soft point. The Norma stuff is stout enough to knock over a Moose. . . Now, admittedly you won't find this stuff at a Walmart, but it is available, and if your local gunstore won't order it for you, there are multiple sources on line where you can get it.
Lastly, if you are unsatisfied with the selection of commerically available 7,62x54R ammo, I'd just consider taking up reloading your own ammo. There are plenty of good .312 caliber bullets out there to reload, and custom rounds will let you load up low-recoil or other specialty loads you can't readily buy. Doing that is probably ultimately going to be more satisfying (and probably cheaper) than spending hundreds of dollars and untold aggravation trying to turn a Mosin rifle into something it isn't.0 -
quote:Originally posted by jonk
BAD idea. MUCH more to it than that. The Mosin case is a LOT fatter and 3mm longer. Would a .308 chamber and probably fire? Sure. It wouldn't be centered, wouldn't be supported, and would probably rupture at very least drenching the shooter in gas. Might a chamber adapter allow this? Possibly, sure. But as sits, The .308 will NOT safely fire from a Mosin chamber, extractor modified or otherwise. Even if the case did NOT rupture, it would surely stretch and swell severely, limiting caselife to one shot.
Also worth mentioning that despite the name, 7.62x54R actually uses .312 (not .308) bullets, so you'd expect pretty bad accuracy with a .308 gun, even assuming you COULD get it to fire (which, as mentioned can NOT happen just by dropping in a .308 round!).
In terms of commercially available 7.62x54R, actually Wolf has two different bullet weights out there, and not only is it readily available, but at under $10/box for steel case ammo, its actually quite inexpensive compared to most soft-point hunting ammo:
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/browse/browseammo.aspx?c=96&s=954
The "Wolf Gold" is actually brass-cased ammo made in Serbia by Privi Partizan, and it Boxer primed and fully reloadable.
Here are some of the other brands that are available:
http://www.natchezss.com/ammo.cfm?contentId=ammoGroup&ammoGroup=1&searchBy=size&ammoSize=332&category=3&outOfStock=1&orderBy=0 -
What about sportizing one of these rifles? Turning down the bolt, removing the open sights, replacing the trigger, etc. There is nothing wrong with the caliber, my opinion. 0 -
As mentioned already and for all the reasons, modifying or sporterizing your Mosin-Nagant rifle can be quite expensive and impractical. And the reality is, as said, the rifle and 7.62x54R cartidge is just fine for big-game hunting. More importantly, practically every Mosin-Nagant rifle is an historical artifact, very likely to have been used in action to defend the Soviet Union at one time or other (or in many cases, against the Soviets by the Finns, etc.), and should be preserved as in interesting piece of history. If only they could talk!
I currently own about 6, and had as many as a dozen before supplying my son and son-in-law and grandsons with a few of them. I shoot them all, they have been great fun. I have hunted big game with my Model 91/59, a short version (cut-down by Soviet and satellite armories) for post-war issue to border guars, and others. I attached a long eye relief scope to amount that temporarily replaces the rear sight, with no modifications or "bubba-izing" to the rifle. It is handy, quick, and accurate, and accounted for one of the biggest Pennsylvania bucks of my hunting career. I use 180 grain soft-point ammo from Prvi Partisan for hunting, that is boxer-primed, non-corrosive, reloadable, and quite accurate in a couple of my rifles. There are lots of others available now, and I routinely reload for it also. I have even made friends with the Mosin's safety, which seemed awkward at first. The terminal ballistics of the 7.62x54R are more than adequate for most big game in the lower 48, and I consider the cartridge suitable for anything I would use a .308 or .30-06 and similar cartidges for. And for a very low price, you can hold history in your hands, and imagine what Soviet soldier used your rifle where, and for what.0 -
Like was just said, there are a ton of parts out there to customize a Mosin. I have just bought a set of dies to reload my own rounds due to the fact that it is not availble locally(Walmart) without corrosive power. I do have a good stock of Winchester in both soft point and FMJ.
Sportmans wearhouse has good deals on all of the supplies that you need to reload and might sell loaded ammo. Also, most reloading manuals have spec`s for this round. It`s a harty round, so why change calibers just reload.[8D]0 -
That 7.62X54R is a great round for hunting . Here is a Pic of a M44 that I made up as a loaner gun for friends to use. I have about $120 of spare parts in the $69 gun, and it has taken more than it's share of game. 
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quote:Originally posted by jptatum
What about sportizing one of these rifles? Turning down the bolt, removing the open sights, replacing the trigger, etc. There is nothing wrong with the caliber, my opinion.
What about it?
These things can all be done. How expensive and impractical/practical it is to do depends on what exactly you want done.
All you need to do to make a stock rifle fairly suitable for hunting, I think, is add a recoil pad and replace the rear sight with a "scout" type mount to put in a long-eye relief pistol scope. Total cost of doing that could be as little as $30-40 plus cost of the scope.
Here's mine. Its a sporterized Russian M44 carbine with factory stock ($110), removed bayonet (free with screwdriver and 90 seconds work), aftermarket recoil pad ($15), foam rubber cheekpiece (free. . .foam was in my garage), canvas sling (free, came with gun) cartridge holder ($7 at Dicks), SK scope mount ($80 or so, but you could get away with a much cheaper one) and used 2x Leupold pistol sight ($80).
Edit: Note that if you're fairly savvy about reloading, and don't mind cleaning after corrosive primers, I believe its possible to pull the bullets from cheap milsurp rounds and replace them with premium hunting bullets. So you could get cook up some ammo that is relatively good for hunting, relatively inexpensively and easily.0
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