Mauser Type "B"??

February 01, 2011 12:06

I believe the rifle is an original sporter but it looks like at one time it was buried and out side in rough shape.

0

nononsense

February 01, 2011 14:25

luchocas,

Congratulations! It does appear to be a Type B Mauser Pattern 40. The date of the action and barrel is approximately 1938/39.

The cartridge (chamber) is actually the 8x60S originally. The cartridge came about when the Allies made Germany sign the Treaty of Versailles making the military cartridge 8x57 illegal. In order to save the 10's of thousands of rifles in civilian hands, Mauser designed the 8x60S so that the civilian rifles could be safely re-chambered without having to destroy the multitudes of civilian rifles while still adhering to the Treaty.

"By design, the 8x60S is 2 millimeters longer in the body and 1 millimeter longer in the neck. This safely precludes the use of the 8x57 cartridge in all situations." (Looking for the source)

One comment about the condition of the rifle. I believe that the stock you show is a second stock and not the original. The damage from moisture done to metal parts is significant and would have severely damaged the wood stock also. The original stock was either separated from the barreled action and protected or was damaged beyond repair and replaced with the current stock. The current stock is faithful to the original in the design style of the Type B Mauser.

Best.

ADDED:

I should have put that in quotes and the given an attribution. I need to find where that came from in my notes. Maybe Speed's book... I'll look when I get a minute.

Best.

ADDED:

"The rear face of extractor actually establishes headspace."

While this may appear to be true, it is however, fallacious. I don't care what examples are given, the rear face of the extractor is NOT the headspace feature. Many examples exist where the wrong cartridge for a particular chamber can be fired and this could be one of them but to call it the headspace feature is inaccurate.

Best.

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sandwarrior

February 01, 2011 15:47

quote:Originally posted by givette
WARNING!!

I clicked on the link, enlarged one of the photos, and my computer protection software (McAfee) went crazy with trojan/virous alerts! Open at your own risk!

Joe

Mine was all good...had no problems. I think your security is dialed up pretty good. That's okay, better safe than sorry.

Anyhow, regarding the rifle. I like the look of it. Too bad there is damage to the metal. I would have it checked before I fired it. But, once you find it's good, I wouldn't stop firing it.

As noted that was a popular caliber change-over from between the wars. Post war WWII was a 8x68(?) conversion. A belted magnum type case IIRC.

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rufe-snow

February 01, 2011 16:06

quote:Originally posted by nononsense
luchocas,

By design, the 8x60S is 2 millimeters longer in the body and 1 millimeter longer in the neck. This safely precludes the use of the 8x57 cartridge in all situations.

With controlled feed firearms, The cartridge rim is engaged by extractor as the bolt goes into battery, prior to complete chambering of cartridge. The rear face of extractor actually establishes headspace.

I can't tell you how many times I have witnessed ignorant folks firing 7.62 X 51, AKA .308 Winchester, in M1 rifles chambered for 30-06. You can't hardly miss it, as the fired brass has a quite distinctive appearance.

To make a long story short. The krauts who had to have their Mausers rechambered to 7.92 X 60 because of the Treaty of Versailles would have laughed their butts off, as they shot all the 7.92 X 57 ammo they wanted out of them.

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jptatum

February 02, 2011 08:11

Does anybody have any experience with this cartridge? If so what is it?

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rufe-snow

February 02, 2011 08:46

quote:Originally posted by jptatum
Does anybody have any experience with this cartridge? If so what is it?

It's simply as noted above, a cartridge that was created by the Germans after the end of the First World War to get around the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles. That treaty prevented them from owning and making rifles chambered for the 7.92 X 57 Mauser military cartridge.

Just by running a finishing reamer in to the chamber to open it up approximately .120 depth wise it was possible to make all the rifles chambered for the 7.92 X 57 legal. You could even fire the 7.92 X 57 in 7.92 X 60 as long as you used a controlled feed rifle and fed cartridges up through the magazine.

With the .120 longer cartridge, capacity would be very similar to our 30-06 if you wanted to reload for a rifle chambered for the 7.92 X 60.

0

nononsense

February 02, 2011 12:27

jptatum,

I have fired several hundred rounds of 8x60S through several versions of Mauser rifles, both re-chambered and original chambers. I've even made new rifles using this chamber as it's a fine cartridge when loaded properly.

Everyone should also be aware that there are other variations of the standard chamber, two of which deal with the .318 early barrels and the later .323 barrels. One would do well to have the bore/groove measured to be sure which type they have before attempting to fire any cartridges.

Secondly, to add to the confusion, Mauser stamped the caliber markings on the barrel using their own code when the rifles were produced. I have seen in some representations, these markings for the 8x60 round.

8x60 (normal loading .318)
8x60N (normal loading .318)
8x60S (normal loading .323)
8x60M (hotter loading .323)
8x60 Magnum (hotter loading .323)
8x60HV (Magnum Bombe .323)

Examples exist of still further variations based on bullet diameters but this will only make an already tedious discussion more difficult. Suffice it to say that you need to measure your barrel first before firing any cartridge.

After Germany lost the First World War, the Peace Treaty of Versailles limited the number of 8 mm Mauser rifles to a mere 100,000. This has been noted as being inadequate for Germany's defense let alone the sport shooting segment. Odd as it may seem, sporting rifles were included as well. To comply with the treaty and to save many rifles, it was decided to redesign the cartridge by extending the case to 60 millimeters. This was a minor change, and original barrels were simply re-chambered - everything else remained the same.

Never is a movable extractor considered to be a headspace feature. To suggest as much is foolish. While it could (and probably has) serve(d) as such under unusual circumstances, it is not the norm at all. Simply because it could be made to work does not make it acceptable as the rule let alone a safe practice. This obviously includes firing 8x57 cartridges in an 8x60S chamber.

Best.

0

luchocas

February 04, 2011 08:39

Hi nononsense, thank you very much for your answer, I begun to clean the rifle and I found a lot of grease with powder, the ball of the bolt are with rust, thats all, inside and outside of the rifle appear in all pieces the original number or the last two or four numbers. Either the stock are replaced, they are the original and also have the number inside bedding zone.
In my country we don`t have posibilities for this kind of ammo, and recharge are impossible. Then the questions are: can I change the barrel?, the rifle have any collectors value?, how much?

Thank you very much all of you from Per?.

Some another pics...

http://img197.imageshack.us/g/dsc06479nk.jpg/

0

nononsense

February 04, 2011 13:14

luchocas,

Good job taking the Mauser apart and excellent pictures!

The stock is original to the rifle so apparently the bolt and top of the action got some moisture from somewhere. The damage to the bolt and the suggestion of rust elsewhere will hurt the value of the rifle overall. My concern is that you don't have access to the ammunition and you can't reload for it either. This alone makes the rifle collector's piece only, for you.

I'm not an expert on the value but I can make a suggestion as to how to handle this situation. I think you should try to trade this rifle off in exchange for another rifle that you can find ammunition for and enjoy shooting it.

Best.

0

Mauser Type "B"??

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