AR-15 vs. Bolt Action .223
I'm going to buy a .223 but am concerned about a couple of things. If it is a AR...I'm interested in a DPMS Bull 20 and haven't settled on a bolt yet. There seems to be a BIG stigma about the AR platform. What does everything think about that? What about accuracy. I'm buying it for strictly plinking......prairie dogs and predators. I'm looking for accuracy and something reliable. What are pros and cons. I'm having a tough time deciding. Can you guys help. Thanks.
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Bolt action definitely. Most likely cheaper. See if you can get one in 5.56 if possible. Shoot cold bore & forget the bull. Look for one with a free floating stainless steal barrel because they resist heat. 0 -
The AR platform can be just as accurate as a bolt action rifle, but it'll cost you more to get a really accurate AR. I have shot 3/4" 5 round groups out of my buddies custom AR at 200 yards, that build cost him just over $2000, not counting optics. But the AR platform rifles are very versital as by just changing out the upper receiver you can have a totally different rifle. You can swap in everything from a belt fed .22LR to a single shot .50 BMG, all it takes is money.
On the other side of the coin is the bolt action. A good bolt gun from any of the current manufactures will shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards with good ammo, and that is an off the self rifle that you can buy for well under $1000. Most every manufacture builds varmint class rifles in .223 and there are many great options that can be had, again, all it takes is money.
When it come to shooting at varmints, squeakers are just targets you will soon find that the most important part of the shooting package is the rifle scope. It does not matter who makes the rifle, what ammo use use or how accurate the package your shooting is, if you can not see the target you will never be able to hit the target. Concentrate on your optics and then toss a rifle under it, you'll be much better off in the long run.0 -
quote:Originally posted by walleyes13
I'm going to buy a .223 but am concerned about a couple of things. If it is a AR...I'm interested in a DPMS Bull 20 and haven't settled on a bolt yet. There seems to be a BIG stigma about the AR platform. What does everything think about that? What about accuracy. I'm buying it for strictly plinking......prairie dogs and predators. I'm looking for accuracy and something reliable. What are pros and cons. I'm having a tough time deciding. Can you guys help. Thanks.
What stigma?
Plenty of people use AR-15 platform guns for varminting. There is nothing wrong with doing that.
If you like one, go for it.
Pros and Cons? AR-15 is a completely modular platform, making it easy to swap out stocks, grips, barrels, triggers, and any other part you like. If you want to change calibers, you can do that, though its not as cheap as you might like! Biggest drawback, I think, is just cost.
Dollar for dollar, I think accuracy costs less with a bolt gun. Also, since you mentioned reliability, while a properly tuned and maintained AR-15 should be highly reliable, realistically, any bolt gun is probably more reliable.
Personally, I'd go for the bolt gun, but again, its more about what you like than what I like!0 -
I have thought about a bolt .223 for years. Since I shoot sub MOA out of my Varminter I have not felt the need to buy a bolt gun as it would gain me nothing.
Any of the quality makers out there with target style guns will work very well for you.
Here is a little porn for you. Mine has about $2500 into it not counting the silencer,
EDIT:
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
He said PORN![:0][:D][:0][:D][}:)][:0][:D] Yeah Baby! love that IOR Scope... Got any details?
Nice catch on the IOR.
Bushmaster Varminter, Magpul PRS stock, GG&G scope riser, NSX rings, IOR 4-14x50 with MP8 Dot reticle, Ergo Grip, Redi-mag, Harris bipod, AWC Thundertrap .30 cal silencer, and last but not least custom made sling (I make my own).
Barrel is 24" 1:9 twist and I shoot handloaded 55gr Nosler ballistic tips.0 -
Most standard AR-15's come with a 1 in 7 to a 1 in 9 twist. They like heavier bullets. Unless you get a custom build, that is the way it is. You really need a 1 in 12 to get the best results from 40-55 grain bullets. That said, that is what the majority of bolt guns come with, is the 1 in 12 twist. I have a run of the mill RRA 16" Varmint upper on an early Eagle Arms pre-ban lower. It has a 1 in 8 twist. It loves 69 grain match loads, and is astounding with the 62 and 70 grain Barnes TSX bullets that I have loaded over Reloader 15 powder. When I say astounding, it clover leaf's or better at 200 yards off a good bench rest. I also have a 2 stage match trigger in this beast.
I say get yourself a DPMS, Stag, RRA, or Bushmaster, not really in that order either. DO NOT BUY a Hesse, Vulcan, or BlackThorne...they are junk!
To answer your other topic"is the 223 big enough for coyote's?"...yes absolutely. It is big enough for anything in North America in the right hands with the right loads.
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quote:Originally posted by Nwcid
I have thought about a bolt .223 for years. Since I shoot sub MOA out of my Varminter I have not felt the need to buy a bolt gun as it would gain me nothing.
Any of the quality makers out there with target style guns will work very well for you.
Here is a little porn for you. Mine has about $2500 into it not counting the silencer,
He said PORN![:0][:D][:0][:D][}:)][:0][:D] Yeah Baby! love that IOR Scope... Got any details?
To the OP. I love my bolt gun and my AR's. I find I shoot a lot more with my AR's. Not because I'm missing, it's because I can. The AR is a plenty accurate platform for shooting coyotes. And in the past few years bullet selection has gotten a lot better as far as both varmint and hunting. That includes long range varminting. I've heard many times, the limitation of the .223 is around 300-350 yards. I strongly beg to differ with that. With 75 and 77 gr. bullets that feed from a magazine they will shoot very well to 600, good to 800 and even 1000 yds. That is if you are up to calling the winds at those ranges. With a 1-8 or even 1-9" twist that will stabilize those bullets.
I will recommend one thing to you. If you want to go with the .223 get one with a 5.56 or .223 Wylde chamber. That will allow you to shoot the hotter mil-spec 5.56 cartridges. You can shoot .223 through 5.56 but not the other way around. I used to do it all the time not understanding that due to the differences in the chamber (specifically lead/throat) that it was causing extreme high pressures. Not to mention it was wearing out my barrel faster than even a 5.56 will wear a 5.56 chambered barrel.
-good luck0 -
I had a DPMS Sweet 16 and I'd put it up against a bolt rifle anytime. It was a tack driver with a hand load. 0 -
The big advantage of the AR platform when compared to a standard bolt action rifle is its flexability. Pop two pins and you can swap out the upper in seconds. By changing the upper you can have an completely differently configured rifle right down to the cartridge even. You will always expect to pay for the level of accuracy that you want whichever type of rifle you buy but with the AR you can have alot more then just one rifle.... 0 -
Its personal prefernce, yes some have a stigma against an AR. But it gets less and less. 15 years ago I never thought I would hunt with and AR. This summer, 2 of 4 rifles will be and AR platform for Prarie dog hunting/shooting.
Both can be accurate enough. My 16" AR's shoot 1" groups at 100 yards. Not heavy barrels and not premium either. I use 55gr bullets out of 1/9 twist, my 1/7 twist still shoot them at 1" as well. Make sure you want a heavy barrel, they can get heavy. The Coyote profile that RRA has is nice. 20" barrel, nice trigger, Wylde chamber, and descent stock. For the money its hard to beat.
Bolt actions, so many to choose. Get one that fits, unless its a dedicated doggin' gun, I'd get a regular barrel or medium at most.
Any 223 will get to 300 yards with just a little practice, any more and the shooter needs may need a fair amount of practice.
Like previously said, get good glass. Lots of opinions on that, I won't go into my opinions on that. Probably more choices for scopes than rifles.
After reading my post and the others, your probably farther away than closer on making a decision. Have fun and let us know the route you go.0 -
Come on, give us a budget to work with[:D] Do you have any preferenc, or strictly looking at accuracy and reliability.
You can get into a bolt gun cheaper than an AR
ARs are more modular to fit your needs and wants
Accuracy and reliability(slight edge to a bolt gun with reliability) can be a wash
In regaurds to your other post
My cousin and I both have Bushmaster Predators 20" with Nikon glass.
I have a coyote kill at 480yards his longest it 670yards.
I shoot Hornady 55gr VMAX
He shoots Federal 55gr NBT0 -
quote:Originally posted by dbain99
Come on, give us a budget to work with[:D] Do you have any preferenc, or strictly looking at accuracy and reliability.
You can get into a bolt gun cheaper than an AR
ARs are more modular to fit your needs and wants
Accuracy and reliability(slight edge to a bolt gun with reliability) can be a wash
In regaurds to your other post
My cousin and I both have Bushmaster Predators 20" with Nikon glass.
I have a coyote kill at 480yards his longest it 670yards.
I shoot Hornady 55gr VMAX
He shoots Federal 55gr NBT
If you think those shoot good with those 55 grain bullets, you should try a 69 grain match load or the 75 grain TAP ;oad. That 1 in 8 twist favors the heavy bullets. Accuracy and reliability go to a bolt gun? Dont try to fool yourself dollar for dollar.
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I have an AR, a SAKO bolt gun, and a Browning single shot and love shooting them all. Each of them is more accurate than I am so it is a question of what "feels" best to you. True, the AR's tend to have quicker twist barrels, mine is 1 in 9", and the single shot is 1 in 14" the SAKO is 1 in 12" for whatever reason they all like the Hornady 60 grain V-Max with 26 grains of 748. In a big dog town the AR can keep you busier, but the single shot challenges you to place your shot because it won't be there by the time you reload. 0
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