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German SA Dagger info

Ruckin69
Can't seem to figure this one out. It has no makers mark just a
HA and "1"
Which I think translates to:
Hansa=Ha
SA Gruppe HQ Inspection Stamp Markings (1933 to 1935)
Any info and value?

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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • Wolf.
    Do you have the metal sheath, with the fittings and leather for this dagger? If so, price rises, but need photos to determine condition.

    EDIT---EDIT
    This edit is regarding the two replys below....
    Honestly, I cannot speak to value in today's terms; I have been out of it too long. I used to collect this stuff and be able to quote chapter and verse when I was a kid living in Germany many years ago. A pristine example of an SA dagger, with metal painted scabbard and the leather hangers cost about $15-20 in USD's at the antique shops back then. Less for those that were not in such good condition. I would make my rounds of the antique shops every week and after the proprietors got to know me they would pull out this stuff and sell it to me. Nazi stuff was !Verboten! in Germany, but there was tons of it around at that time.

    Anyway, This particular style of German ceremonial, or parade, or dress dagger is quite old. The Nazis were not the first to use it, and it may have been in use back in the 1800's or during WWI as well....not sure of that. This exact dagger style was used by several German groups, including the SA, then the SS and others. The differences were the little round "group logo" badge set into the handle (This example says "SA"). The eagle may have been different, I seem to recall seeing an eagle variation or two, but not sure now. The SS examples were black, their logo was two of the the familiar Eastern European rune figure that look like a stylized letter "S". the SA daggers were brown, etc. The dagger actually comes apart by removing the nut at the top. The scabbards, as I said, are made of metal and are painted the appropriate color for the group that was using them. The SA daggers had a blade inscription, "Alles fur Deutschland", meaning literally, "Everyone for Germany" or, in our terms, "United we Stand", or something like that. I think the the SS dagger had an inscription that translated to something like, "My Honor is True". As I recall now, the blade inscription was different for each of the groups, but again, the dagger was exactly the same with only the color scheme and the group logo varying. Naturally this was not the only dagger used by the SS.

    The SA was the "Sturmabteilung" or "Storm Troopers". They were Hitler's orignal band of murdering, paramilitary thugs. Hitler had all the major SA leaders purged (murdered) in the late 1930's for not playing well with others in his burgeoning group of murderers. The SS or "Schutzstaffel", meaning "Protection Group" or "Protection Squad" or something like that, rose and superceded the SA (I think under Himmler(?)) as the strong arm enforcers fur Das Dritte Reich. Later the SS became Germany's "elite" military and police organization. But, while some were truly elite, other SS sub-organizations were murdering, cowardly thugs or useless political appointees.
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  • Ruckin69
    No I dont but now I am looking for one. Is the the scabbard for it?pix9683629261.jpg


    If so, how much can I get one for. Here is the info I found on this dagger:

    SA Dagger


    Probably the dagger had a Roehm inscription denoting it was made prior to summer '34. After that all Roehm inscriptions were removed. Sometimes the maker was removed ( by grinding and or polishing) too because they were on the same side of the blade. I have found generally that "ground Roehm" SAs are worth little more than post 1934 produced daggers.

    HA is the gruppe marking. Gruppe markings are found on every SA dagger. HA = Hamburg; which encompassed all of the mecklinburg area. I have two for sale in the 600ish range and they are sitting.
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  • EVILDR235
    About 40 years ago I had a simular dagger.Mine looked like yours,but had a black grip and a metal scabbard with silver braid wraped around it.I got it from a friend of mine whose father brought half of Germany home with him during WWII.Both my friend and his father are gone now.Another friend now owns the dagger and live about 500 miles away from me.

    EvilDr235
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  • Ruckin69
    I have one more question. It seems that the reverse side has no makers mark and no signs of grinding. I can't find any info on just a plain unmarked blade on 1 side. I know they bought their own daggers so most had Roehms name ground off but this blade shows no sign of it with ridge as pronounced as the other side. Any info?

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  • Ruckin69
    Here is an answer I got:

    Some daggers were very professionally ground. Some even sent back to the factory from removal via high pressure polishing.
    Basically the lack of markings is either post 1934 inscription removal or else the dagger was ordered as non-marked by the purchaser.

    It is either one or the other. take your pick.
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  • Ruckin69
    quote:Originally posted by Ruckin69
    Here is an answer I got:

    Some daggers were very professionally ground. Some even sent back to the factory from removal via high pressure polishing.
    Basically the lack of markings is either post 1934 inscription removal or else the dagger was ordered as non-marked by the purchaser.

    It is either one or the other. take your pick.


    Also, some scabbards and daggers may not fit each other, so, I have to have both and see how they mate to get a fitting scabbard for this Dagger!
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