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94 winchester help

75fan
I have a question for anyone who cares to help me with my early 94 rifle with some unique features. Below is a brief description of the rifle...
Serial# 4XX(three digits)
30 WCF
Takedown 26" round barrel with 1/2 tube magazine
Shotgun style butt plate with horizontal lines machines in it.
Barrel and receiver both show a "WP" proof mark stamped.
Tang is stamped with 3 line....
WINCHESTER
-TRADE MARK-
MADE IS USA

I have lot of questions on this gun. The letter from Cody Museum said..
rifle
38/55 caliber
octagon barrel
plain trigger
Received in warehouse November 19th 1894
Shipped from warehouse on November 26th 1894

Any help you can give me would be much appreciated. Thanks

75fan
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • perry shooter
    Wait for BERT H he is the man . however I can tell you he will want to see pictures up close in focus of all barrel and receiver markings. SERIAL number markings need to really be clear . I woiuld guess right off it may have one or two more digits in serial that you might not see due to wear. BUT THIS IS JUST A GUESS hard to believe someone would replace barrel and forearm and I would also think about the machine work needed to make it a TAKE-DOWN model[?][?][?]//

    EDIT THis question will lock after 10 replies . Rules of Gunbroker you are doing nothing wrong to cause it to be locked Just start another post called 1894 take two with pictures . I took me 5 years to learn to post pictures and be able to do it when I wanted to . You will have to have a hosting of pictures site and either know or learn how to copy and paste we do need pictures . keep trying if I can learn how anybody can . [:I]
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  • 75fan
    perry shooter.
    The amount of work to make a take down does not make any sense. I had several people mention the term "lunchbox gun", have you ever heard of that term? There are very few of them out there, but they are an odd configuration of options(a take down in 1894 for example), but I am new to collecting these great guns. Also, the 3 digit serial number is very clear(and centered in the receiver) so there is no mistaking this number for a few more digits. Hope to hear from you again soon.

    75fan
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  • Bert H.
    Hello 75fan,

    There is something very much amiss... and the Cody letter spells it out. Specifically, the very first Model 1894 in 30 W.C.F. was serial number 3314.

    Second, the upper tang stamp you mention did not make its appearance until circa serial number 223,000. It is referred to as the Type-2 upper tang stamp.

    Winchester did not begin using the superposed "WP" proof mark until circa serial number 271,000 (which very closely coincides with the Type-2 upper tanf stamp).

    The butt plate you describe is the type that was first introduced in June of 1924 (for the Model 55 and 53 lever-action rifles).

    The first several hundred Model 1894s were all 38-55s, and most (if not all) of them were also First Models... is the rifle that you are asking about a First Model?

    Just in case you have not read this yet, this topic I wrote several years ago now has quite a bit of useful information in it concerning the Model 1894 - http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=245213

    To sum it up for you, I very highly suspect that someone intentionally altered (attempted to fake) the gun. I suspect that the serial number has been altered to make it look like an early "Antique", when in fact, it is not. Hopefully, you are not into the gun for a lot of $$$.
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  • schintzie
    Are you sure this is a model 1894? This sounds very much like a model 55. Does it say Model 94 on the barrel, or Model 55? If it says Model 94, I think there is a strong possibility that it is a Model 55 that has been refitted with a Model 94 barrel. The three-digit serial number, combined with the caliber, the magazine length, and the description of the butt plate points towards a Model 55.
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by schintzie
    Are you sure this is a model 1894? This sounds very much like a model 55. Does it say Model 94 on the barrel, or Model 55? If it says Model 94, I think there is a strong possibility that it is a Model 55 that has been refitted with a Model 94 barrel. The three-digit serial number, combined with the caliber, the magazine length, and the description of the butt plate points towards a Model 55.


    The upper tang stamp does not fit for a Model 55, and that is something that is extremely difficult to alter. All of the Model 55 rifles have the Type-6 upper tang stamp versus the Type-2.
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  • edharold
    Why not post a picture. There is something very strange here.
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  • 75fan
    I am new to this site, and I am not too familiar with adding pics to a forum, but I think that the pics would help a lot. I will try and post them so everyone can see what I have and might be able to help me out. Thanks,

    75fan
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by 75fan
    I am new to this site, and I am not too familiar with adding pics to a forum, but I think that the pics would help a lot. I will try and post them so everyone can see what I have and might be able to help me out. Thanks,

    75fan

    Posting pics is easy. This thread shows you how: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=259294
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  • 75fan
    quote:Originally posted by schintzie
    Are you sure this is a model 1894? This sounds very much like a model 55. Does it say Model 94 on the barrel, or Model 55? If it says Model 94, I think there is a strong possibility that it is a Model 55 that has been refitted with a Model 94 barrel. The three-digit serial number, combined with the caliber, the magazine length, and the description of the butt plate points towards a Model 55.


    schintzie,
    I think you figured it out[:D]
    After doing some research in my Winchester Book, it talks about the Model 55 and how some of them were called "transition guns" that could have a "model 94 barrel". That explains the "takedown" model, 30 WCF caliber and the tang markings look right for a 55. The 497 serial in the 55 model shows it to be made in 24. Thanks for the help in figuring this out(I hope that is).
    75fan
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  • Bert H.
    quote:Originally posted by 75fan
    quote:Originally posted by schintzie
    Are you sure this is a model 1894? This sounds very much like a model 55. Does it say Model 94 on the barrel, or Model 55? If it says Model 94, I think there is a strong possibility that it is a Model 55 that has been refitted with a Model 94 barrel. The three-digit serial number, combined with the caliber, the magazine length, and the description of the butt plate points towards a Model 55.


    schintzie,
    I think you figured it out[:D]
    After doing some research in my Winchester Book, it talks about the Model 55 and how some of them were called "transition guns" that could have a "model 94 barrel". That explains the "takedown" model, 30 WCF caliber and the tang markings look right for a 55. The 497 serial in the 55 model shows it to be made in 24. Thanks for the help in figuring this out(I hope that is).
    75fan


    I disagree, and No, that is not it... additionally, there was no such thing as a "transition" Model 55. When Winchester introduced it in June of 1924, it was its own new (separate) Model, and with a number of new features.

    The upper tang stamp that you described in your intial post is from a much earlier time period than the Model 55. All Model 55 rifles (with the exception of a few very have the Type-6 tang upper tang stamp. Your Take Down is a Model 1894, and it has the Type-2 tang stamp.
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