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M1916 Spanish Mauser in 308win

rp85
hello;

have a chance to buy a M1916 Spanish Mauser in 308win. cal. add says "clean bore: pitting".

anyone have a m1916 spanish mauser in 308win??? you review?? know "pitting" is not a good thing, but what are the pit-falls of pitting in this type of rifle? plans are to shoot cast bullets and light jacket bullet reloads.

thanks for any imput.

rp
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Comments

11 comments

Date Votes
  • 1KYDSTR
    The pitting, even when using lead and low velocity jacketed bullets causes extreme fouling much faster than in a smooth, "clean" barrel. Pitting is just that; microscopic holes in the metal caused by corrosive primers and propellents and as such they appear as "craters" in the bore. These craters have sharp little edges and they scrape loose copper from jackets and of course, lead is softer so it deposits faster, regardless of relative velocity . Having to clean much more often is bad enough on it's own but add to that the accelerated erosion of the barrel caused by the pitting (under pressure and deflagration the heat eats into the metal faster where the "craters" are located ) and associated shorter life span and you have a recipe for not much fun. Accuracy is of course normally eroded as well and there is no recipe to fix that. If the barrel is pitted in a military rifle one can normally assume also that the soldier in question cleaned the barrel from the muzzle and totally destroyed the crown of the barrel. Another bane to accuracy and the only fix there is to cut the barrel and recrown which will normally screw up the front sight placement as well. Unless it's a hell of a deal, I would pass as there is no real fix for this issue.
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  • rufe-snow
    The early Spanish Mausers based on the Model 93 actions are not renowned for their strength or durability. You would be better served with a rifle based on a 98 action. As long as your only going to use light handloads in the Spanish Mauser, I guess it will be OK though.
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  • merrbarb
    Hello RP85

    What you be looking at is a Spanish Mod. FR7, mod. 1893 bolt action Mauser military rifle that was arsenal altered to a NATO .308. It should have a flash hider and a bayonet lug. This was done at the time NATO countries converted to the 308 cartridge. It may be parkerized. BUT, it also should be fired with reduced .308 loads as opposed to new commercial ammunition. It is a cool looking rifle that appears to have a gas piston below the barrel; it is actually a storage tube for cleaning kit, or whatever.
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  • dfletcher
    ^^^

    It's not the FR7. The Spanish 1916 in 308 is a reworked 7X57. I had one, not a particularly well made rifle - I think they were manufactured in Oveida and that name is stamped on the receiver. Depending on the story, the 1916s were rebarreled to the 308 CETME and never intended to fire 7.62 NATO - or that they were never intended to fire the 7.62 NATO is incorrect.

    http://samcoglobal.com/m1916.html
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  • Riomouse911
    I have one I got from Century International Arms in Miami about 5 years ago for about 100 bucks. I've fired lots of 7.62 and commercial .308 Win through it with no issues at all. The action might not be as strong or smooth at a '98, but I'm calling the internet stories just that, internet stories. I'll say very few people who complain about them have even shot them, and no one can point to a verified story about one failing when chambered as a 7.62. (Don't ya think Century would've been sued at least once for importing a defective product if this actually happened? I can't find it and that would be all over the internet)

    All in all a handy little gun, loud as hell on the ears. Trigger is ok, but sights are microscopic. OK as a truck-gun/plinker that won't make your wallet cringe if it scuffs the ground when you're hiking.
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  • Mobuck
    Regardless of past or current useage, firing commercial .308 Win ammo in these old rifles is risky. I've had at least 1/2 dozen of them and fired some 7.62x51 Nato ammo in a couple w/o noticeable damage. Most of my shooting of these has been with handloads at the start load level. Due to manufacturing variances, some of the receivers might be a little harder than others and therefore handle the higher pressure better/longer. There is a reason the M98 is a stronger built action. My guess is problems were already showing up with hard used M93/95's and the trend for more powerfull cartridges would only make it worse so Mauser improved and strengthened the design(among other reasons). Keep in mind that military use of a design does not specifically make it safe. A failure rate that would make modern day civilians cringe would have been acceptable 60-70 years ago to military leaders trying to arm their forces.
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
    I have one I got from Century International Arms in Miami about 5 years ago for about 100 bucks. I've fired lots of 7.62 and commercial .308 Win through it with no issues at all. The action might not be as strong or smooth at a '98, but I'm calling the internet stories just that, internet stories. I'll say very few people who complain about them have even shot them, and no one can point to a verified story about one failing when chambered as a 7.62. (Don't ya think Century would've been sued at least once for importing a defective product if this actually happened? I can't find it and that would be all over the internet)

    All in all a handy little gun, loud as hell on the ears. Trigger is ok, but sights are microscopic. OK as a truck-gun/plinker that won't make your wallet cringe if it scuffs the ground when you're hiking.


    Opinions are like rectums, everybody has one. Keep on blasting away with your pride and joy, you might wind up being our first Darwin award winner of the year.
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  • Riomouse911
    Thanks for your opinion of me there, Rufe. I'll set it, and any other smart-arse comment about me you may have, on the back of my toilet for the next time my rectum neads a cleaning.

    As for the gun the guy asked about, we both have our opinions about it. I didn't slam you personally for it, don't slam me.
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
    Thanks for your opinion of me there, Rufe. I'll set it, and any other smart-arse comment about me you may have, on the back of my toilet for the next time my rectum neads a cleaning.

    As for the gun the guy asked about, we both have our opinions about it. I didn't slam you personally for it, don't slam me.



    Any time your dealing with 80+? year old firearms with a suspect reputation due to questionable materials and workmanship, I personally tend to be very cautious. Because of this I feel I have a responsibility to the members to express my opinions regarding these firearms. You being unhappy with my opinions doesn't cause me to lose any sleep. As I noted previously opinions are like rectums, everybody has one.
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  • 45er
    [WHEW! HOT TOPIC!]

    Howdy rp85,
    I have a '16 Sp Mouser in .308. myself. I will not get into the opinion war, feeling very comfortable to, uh, just sit on mine and not join in the fracus.

    But obviously there is controversy with this converted firearm. That should be telling enough to have a qualified 'smith check it out, as been mentioned. Many surplus dealers also recommend this for obvious liability. Of course, this done after purchased, so tack on some more $$bucks. You know something already with plan for light, lead loads.

    One point I always considered with this arm, is the low price and avaiability for a long time running now. What reason for this, where other surplus rifles get snatched up quickly in comparision? Makes ya think.

    45er
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  • nononsense
    Gentlemen,

    I am taking this moment to remind all of us to be courteous with each other. Not so subtle mouthings about another member will result in deletions at the least. We can all disagree cordially without the use of silly remarks.

    In the final analysis, the M1916 has a spotty reputation. The heat treat was inconsistent, yielding some very excellent actions and some very poor actions which suffer from set back on the lug seats. I have a couple of each which I hold onto for examples only.

    If you choose to shoot your prize, please consider taking it to a gunsmith with a background in metal testing, especially Mausers. He will tell you the good or bad news after the testing.

    I will also remind all of our esteemed members that there was an article written about the M1916 rifles in which was reported that White Laboratories did several tests of the heat treat and strength of the action some years ago. The result was a strong affirmative for shooting these rifles with appropriate loads.

    When I find my file for the article, I'll post it.

    Best.
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