Colt 45 MKIV Series 70 / Para Ordnance
I have a friend who wants to sell me a Colt 45 MKIV Series 70. Love the gun, but, when I was looking at it last night, I noticed that while the slide says that it is a Colt, the frame says Para Ordnance.
The gun is in good shape for it's age, and everything is functional EXCEPT the safety on the back of the grips. It seems it either broke, or someone disabled it at some point.
My question is, does the frame being a different gun than the slide help or hurt the value of the gun? Any idea of value?
The gun is in good shape for it's age, and everything is functional EXCEPT the safety on the back of the grips. It seems it either broke, or someone disabled it at some point.
My question is, does the frame being a different gun than the slide help or hurt the value of the gun? Any idea of value?
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A parts gun with mismatched slide and frame is never going to be a top dollar item, specially to a Colt collector.
That said if his price is reasonable, no reason not to buy it as a "shooter".
Post quality photos for accurate identification and valuation.0 -
It is strictly a "shooter."
Have you shot it to know that it works?
Don't accept ANY malfunction no matter what excuse the seller makes.0 -
The frame IS the gun.
So, we are talking about a malfunctioning ParaOrdnance (with a Colt slide & a _____ barrel). That makes it, in my book, a Mixed Parts Mongrel.
Worth more than a Filipino POS (Rock Island, Charles Daly, etc), but not much.
Neal0 -
I suspect this parts gun may be based on an early Para-Ordnance high capacity frame. Para got started making high capacity magazines and bare frames for use with Colt and clone upper half assemblies so as to produce the first high capacity .45ACP pistols. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sohigh1
I have a friend who wants to sell me a Colt 45 MKIV Series 70. Love the gun, but, when I was looking at it last night, I noticed that while the slide says that it is a Colt, the frame says Para Ordnance.
So, just to be clear, the gun is a Para-Ordnance gun with a Colt slide, NOT a Colt.
quote:The gun is in good shape for it's age, and everything is functional EXCEPT the safety on the back of the grips. It seems it either broke, or someone disabled it at some point.
So you've shot it to know that its functional?
Whatever the problem is, its probably fixable (possibly quite easily.. .maybe not so easily), **BUT** a disabled safety on a gun is a big red flag, particularly in a "mongrel" gun like this one made of parts from various manufacturers.
The immediate question becomes, who built this gun? Does you friend know its history, and/or why the grip safety isn't working?
If it was built such that the grip safety isn't functional, then who knows what else is wrong with it in terms of parts fitting, etc.
A call to Para *might* be able to tell you when the frame was built and in what condition it left the company (ie either as a bare frame, or as an assembled gun). . . but it might not.
quote:
My question is, does the frame being a different gun than the slide help or hurt the value of the gun? Any idea of value?
Well, range on a 1911 pistol could be from $300-$3000 depending on who built it, parts used, and condition.
In general, its fair to say that guns built from various manufacturers parts are not going to have any collectors value, and likely also aren't going to be worth as much as similar guns built from matching parts. This might be tempered a bit depending on what the parts in question are, and who built it.
"Good condition for its age" is not a useful descriptor of its condition, either internally or externally.
Its impossible to give an exact value for you gun, not knowing exactly what it looks like externally, nor knowing the condition (or even manufacturer) of its internal components.
As a point of reference, consider that an entry level single-stack Para Ordinance 1911 costs about $500 brand new. A gun like that will have a factory warranty. Even though a Colt series 70 upper is (arguably) worth more than a stock Para upper, this gun is used, and its probably NOT got Para or anyone else standing behind it.
So making a large number of assumptions here (eg stock Colt series 70 upper in 95%+ condition, an ordinary SINGLE STACK Para lower in 95% condition, quality construction/assembly and just a minor issue with the safety), this gun *might* be worth $450 or so.
In practice, from that $450 you could probably deduct the cost of a good looking over by a gunsmith and/or repair of the grip safety.
If its a double-stack gun, that changes things a little. . .0 -
The mags on this gun are double stack, and he has three of them. Also comes with a very nice leather holster, and a mag pouch for the two extra mags. 0 -
quote:Well, range on a 1911 pistol could be from $300-$3000 depending on who built it, parts used, and condition. Many prople that have meaty hands cant get a grip safety depressed 100% of the time . That is why many beavertail grip safeties have a PAD sticking out the back. . I don't have that problem and pad dings my hand . Just be sure you get a chance to fire 50 rounds or so before you commit. Check out that the regular safety works correctly Engage safety pull trigger with heavy force Hammer should NOT drop now with finger off trigger put safety in fire position if hammer falls Then pistol was put together by a BLACK-SMITH not a Pistol-Smith. WALKrun away from this deal. 0 -
Doesn't the Para use the trigger actuated firing pin block? I'd presume the "lower parts" have been removed or the top of the dogleg clipped/removed? 0 -
The early kit frames did not have firing pin block linkages.
They were meant for use with whatever upper you had and the lawyer levers would have limited you to Series 80 Colt slides at the time.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawk Carse
The early kit frames did not have firing pin block linkages.
They were meant for use with whatever upper you had and the lawyer levers would have limited you to Series 80 Colt slides at the time.
Got it, thanks.0
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