To codify or not to codify?
Do you think that codifying the rights listed in the BOR has helped to preserve the rights enumerated therein, or do you think that perhaps those rights would not have been infringed to the degree they have, were they not written out?
There was much debate about this at the time. What do you believe history has borne out?
There was much debate about this at the time. What do you believe history has borne out?
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In 'The Invisible Constitution', Laurence Tribe spends a lot of time on this subject, Mr. Perfect, though he was addressing those referenced in Amendment 9 more-so than those specified.
To your point, I do not believe that the codification of any right in the BOR has lead to increased infringement. Absent amendment 1, for example, it is very easy to think that Johnson, for example, a Democratically controlled Congress (or Nixon and a Republican controlled Congress for that matter) could have enacted legislation that severely infringed upon the ability of the party that was out of power to regain power.
With the 1st Amendment in place, however, we have the Citizens United case which overturned a bi-partisan attempt to control political speech and squelch anything that was not of the political establishment as elections approached. Absent that Amendment, it is difficult to believe that such legislation would have been overturned.
Likewise with Amendment 2. Absent its existence, there would have been no basis for Heller or McDonald. The fact that these two decisions severely and irreparably weakened the 2nd, without it there would be nothing stopping individual cities, states or even the entire country from being a citizen gun free zone.0 -
Makes me wonder if they shouldn't have made the list much longer. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Makes me wonder if they shouldn't have made the list much longer.
One of Tribe's points is that a longer list, particularly a much longer list would have been viewed as a complete listing of Individual Rights. Conversely, the number of individual rights 'Retained by the people' as noted in Amendment 9 is virtually infinite, and any attempt at a complete listing would in practice establish restrictions on the individual by default through omission of any number of retained rights.
The assumption that a tipping point exists is valid, though the seven Amendments in the BOR that list specific protections does, IMO, touch upon those individual rights that are most significant regarding the relationship between an individual and the state. I do believe, however, that a little more care with the verbiage, and a written resolution as to application to State and/or Federal Government would have served us well by eliminating much of the interpretive excesses of the judiciary.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Makes me wonder if they shouldn't have made the list much longer.
One of Tribe's points is that a longer list, particularly a much longer list would have been viewed as a complete listing of Individual Rights. Conversely, the number of individual rights 'Retained by the people' as noted in Amendment 9 is virtually infinite, and any attempt at a complete listing would in practice establish restrictions on the individual by default through omission of any number of retained rights.
The assumption that a tipping point exists is valid, though the seven Amendments in the BOR that list specific protections does, IMO, touch upon those individual rights that are most significant regarding the relationship between an individual and the state. I do believe, however, that a little more care with the verbiage, and a written resolution as to application to State and/or Federal Government would have served us well by eliminating much of the interpretive excesses of the judiciary.
Good point. We need to have coffee (or beers) together some time. [:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
We need to have coffee (or beers) together some time.
I would be honored to join that table.0 -
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
We need to have coffee (or beers) together some time.
I would be honored to join that table.
As would I.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Don McManus
quote:Originally posted by pickenup
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
We need to have coffee (or beers) together some time.
I would be honored to join that table.
As would I.
Good points indeed.
Count me in too, I will buy the first round but you have to get HighBall and the rest of the crue together for this party, sl?inte.
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Count me in if HB and LT can join. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DirtyDawg
Count me in if HB and LT can join.
Do I know you?0
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