Colt Ace SM
I've collected colt aces and ace service models now for a number of years. I think I've read about everything on them there is, this includes all the ills on the floating chamber and how to cure them, that is from using choke grease to cooking oil and also using high speed ammo with smaller bearing surface. There is no way the service model is more reliable than the colt ace, how the military came to that conclusion is beyond me. My question is; and maybe this will explain the problem, after world war 2 22cal. ammo was standardized from .223 to .224 thou. of an inch, did this include 22 cal. rim fire ammo as well? if it did then that would explain maybe why the older ace service model tend to get what I call piston freeze more than the newer service models, this could explain excess lead shavings in the older models. .001 of an inch I know isn't that much but it could explain the excess shavings in the older models.
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the guru..perry shooter will be along shortly. he will answer your question then you can take it to the bank...cheers,260 0 -
22lr is .221 or .222, whereas 22wmr/wrf is 224 as are most centerfire 22 calibers. 0 -
I've owned 4 of the floating chamber Colt conversion units over the years. The quality and construction of the bullet is the main factor causing the floating chamber to solder up. Using inexpensive bulk ammo is a recipe for disaster. Since I started using CCI stingers about 12 years ago, the problem with floating chambers soldering up has disappeared, YMMV. 0 -
Hello Waltermoe Pictures on request ;I have a number of both conversion units and other units that use a parent 1911 in 45acp to shoot everything from a 177 pellet powered by a small pistol primer, up to 22 long rifle . As stated the bore diameter is not .224. nor bullet diameter. The original ACE had a very light recoil spring and even a roller on the firing pin retainer to try to get reliable Function. The service model ace was designed with TWO things in mind Reliable function and more recoil on purpose "AFTER ALL IT WAS TO BE USED AS A TRAINING AID" and recoil at a fraction of the cost for 45ACP was thought of as a good thing.. Cheap bulk ammo will not work as well as some of the better copper wash ammo. the real reason the floating chamber STICKS is if you pull a 22 LR bullet you will see that it is a heeled semi hollow base bullet. The hot burning powder vaporizes some of this part of the bullet and this is what is deposited in the floating chamber . This lead/burnt powder deposit is very hard and has to be scraped to remove. Something like dry slide or bullet lube can reduce the need for cleaning but I for one don"t mind cleaning guns it should be able to go 500-1000 between need to clean. .
EDITHello waltermoe double click on my user name and send me a personal email with your email embedded in the message if you would like some pictures of my different conversion units. .
Have you tried a cleaning rod with JB bore cleaner on the leed in of the bore itself sounds like that could have a burr or even the floating chamber itself could have been dropped and has a burr.J.B. will not harm the bore but short strokes maybe 50 of them on just the first 1/2 inch normally this would show up as leading in the barrel but any sharp edge between the transition of the bullet between floating chamber and the barrel itself could give problems. It would be interesting to try another barrel and chamber in your unit. I love to trouble shoot problems to find the exact cause. Swapping parts is a very good way to prove what part is at fault. You don't live in Va. do you [?]I have a number of parts and we could find out which one of yours is at fault. If 100 rounds show up problem then yes IMHO you do have a problem that is NOT typical to these units.
edit IIyou are correct I did not notice you had more then one early SM unit. Have you ever tried swapping just the floating chamber with a later made unit and then just a barrel with original early floating chamber . If the pilot of a chamber reamer will not go in the bore then yes the bore must be tight. I would still try to break the leading edge of the bore with J.B. bore cleaner on a patch worked into the first 1/2 inch of the bore. you will not hurt the overall bore just slick up the entry of the bullet in the rearmost part.0 -
Perry Shooter, I agree with what you say, I only use quality plated ammo and stingers do seem to work best. But I believe this is account of a smaller bearing surface on bullet it self. The bore diameter runs about .216 to .217 on most of my service models. I can go maybe 100 rounds using stingers, but with other bullets, 50 tops and then they lock up the chamber. Now I've never used dry slide or bullet lube I'll give it a try, I get best results it seems with chock tube grease or graphite but still there are shavings, that's why I wondered if 22 cal rim fire ammo diameter increased after WW2. I've thought of opening the throat diameter up .oo1 or maybe .002 inch to see if that would allow the bullet to enter more of a cone before lead is stripped and hopefully the shards of lead drawn out the muzzle better. Thank you for your input. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by waltermoe
Perry Shooter, I agree with what you say, I only use quality plated ammo and stingers do seem to work best. But I believe this is account of a smaller bearing surface on bullet it self. The bore diameter runs about .216 to .217 on most of my service models. I can go maybe 100 rounds using stingers, but with other bullets, 50 tops and then they lock up the chamber. Now I've never used dry slide or bullet lube I'll give it a try, I get best results it seems with chock tube grease or graphite but still there are shavings, that's why I wondered if 22 cal rim fire ammo diameter increased after WW2. I've thought of opening the throat diameter up .oo1 or maybe .002 inch to see if that would allow the bullet to enter more of a cone before lead is stripped and hopefully the shards of lead drawn out the muzzle better. Thank you for your input.
What the fella's are telling you about the cheaper bulk ammunition, is that it has a different lube on it...something of a wax base. It tends to attract fouling, and dirt and grime. Not just the floating chamber Ace's have trouble with this ammo, but all semi automatic 22 rimfire firearms. Even the fabled Ruger 10-22 will run into stoppages, earlier than with some good ammo.
However, don't let the term "copper wash", or "copper plated", determine if it is decent ammo. I particularly do not like the Remington Golden Bullets. They seem to foul as much as the Winchester Wildcats.
All 22 rimfire ammunition has a lubricant coating. All lubrican'ts are not created equal.
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quote:I can go maybe 100 rounds using stingers, but with other bullets, 50 tops and then they lock up the chamber.
That just ain't right.
My SM Ace (1970s reissue) will go several hundred with reasonably reliable (not 100%) function. I shoot bulk plated Federal hollowpoints, their stock number 750.
Back when the model was in production there were advertisements for reliability enhancements. I think all they did was polish the floating chamber, could not have been much more for the $25 or so. Mine works well enough that I did not send off to find out for sure.
"reliability enhancement that Colt offered, I didn't know that they afford this service"
Sorry I was not clear. This was not a COLT service, it was done by an independent gunsmith advertising in Shotgun News.0 -
never could get over the hump to buy a Colt Ace but do have a decent Argentine Ace with 2 clips...no idea of its worth 0 -
Again I want to thank every one for there comments on the question I asked, but I'm afraid maybe I'm not quit getting my point across. I have three of the older ace service models (1935 to 1945)and all seem to have the problem I spoke of, now when I use ammo such as stinger an ammo with small bearing surface the problem is less, but when these guns were built stinger ammo and other high speed ammo did not exist nor was there very much plated or copper washed ammo on the market, but according to records the older ace service models tried by the military functioned quit well. I have a couple of the newer ace service models (1978 to 1982) and they don't seem to have the problem, this is what baffles me, I was interested in the comment that Hawk Carse wrote about the reliability enhancement that Colt offered, I didn't know that they afford this service, I could see how this would help. I should also mention that I have this same problem with the older conversion units that I have, now I have never tried any of the newer conversion units so I can't comment on them, but it sounds like most are satisfied with there function. I was reluctant to try and ream out the throat of the barrel but I went ahead a tried, but the pilot of the reamer will not fit into the barrel, that leads me to believe that there was a change to the barrel diameter or the ammo after world war 2. Again thank you for your suggestions and comments. Maybe someday I'll loose this love affair with the Colt ace. 0
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