12GA 9 Pellet Low-Recoil Rounds
Hey guy's I had a question about this 12ga ammo, I'm trying to buy a bulk 250 Case, and what I seem to run across is either a Standard 2 3/4" Round but 21 pellet which I don't want, it doesn't seem that 21 pellets would pack the same punch that 9 or 12 pellets would. I've also run across the Standard 2 3/4" 9 Pellet Low-Recoil rounds.. Would using a low-recoil 9 pellet buckshot not be advisable for home defense? Does it lack quite a bit of the punch a standard round would have? I'm not too knowledgeable on shotgun loads so I figured I would ask on here seeing as there are quite a few knowledgeable folks on here! I really appreciate any input you guys could share with me!
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Are you thinking 00 buckshot??---21 pellets will have at least twice
the recoil of 9 pellets.-If fired at the same velocity.
If you are using an autoloader, you might have operating problems with the low recoil rounds if your gun depends on recoil to operate.0 -
Everything else being equal, the number of pellets has nothing to do with the recoil, it is the total weight of the pellets and the velocity they are pushed that determines the recoil.
For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.0 -
For indoor defense the 12 gauge 00 buck-shot will over-penetrate walls, destroy wall studs and door frames but will put the intruder down as long as you do your part...While the 12gauge 2 3/4" #4 buckshot will not over-penetrate and cause damage to the same extent; however the 27 lead pellets at approximately 1210fps will still put the intruder in a hurt locker at close range...
You can always do a penetration test on wet newspaper from 19' and there will be no question as to the power delivered to the target which is more than adequate by the 12gauge 2 3/4" #4 buckshot with 27 lead pellets at approx 1210fps yet safer for indoors use...
Regards0 -
To answer your question, Yes the 'low recoil' OO buck loads are fine for home defence IF you live in a rural environment or if your house is separated from other dwelling by a substantial distance (50 feet min). This goes for any buckshot loads!
Also, do you have a concern about others who live in the house, ie. children, wife, roommate, who may be in other rooms when you confront an assailant??? If so, for interior home defence the best load is 'BB' shot, or the steel shot designated as waterfowl loads. This shot size has been found to be able to penetrate to the vitals of a human target, yet have very little residual energy if it penetrates building material.
Recoil is not really a issue as much as stopping power and over 'kill' (penetration). Remember, when choosing a shot gun load you MUST consider the terminal ballistics of a SINGLE pellet when considering the effect on 'target'!
Hope this helped,
Jim[:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
Everything else being equal, the number of pellets has nothing to do with the recoil, it is the total weight of the pellets and the velocity they are pushed that determines the recoil.
For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.
This.
F = MA
Recoil force = total payload mass x its acceleration.
Recoil isn't affected by how many pellets are in the shell, its what they're total mass is and how fast they're spit out of the gun.
Anyway, to answer the question, I think the low recoil OO buckshot loads are actually PERFECT for home defense use. Yes, they're less powerful than the "normal" recoil 9-ball or "magnum" 12-ball loads, but at short defense distances of ten yards or less, this small difference in power isn't going to matter. They'll still make a devastating wound.
Some people like the #4 shot loads for home defense because they offer both a little less recoil, but mostly because they are less likely to "overpenetrate" and go through walls, doors, etc, indoors, causing inadvertent damage.
The problem is that rounds that offer less "overpenetration" also offer less PRIMARY penetration, and something like a #4 round probably isn't going to be quite as a effective as the heavier 00 buckshot, especially if fired through an intermediate barrier like thick winter clothing. So there is a tradeoff there. You're trading less risk to bystanders and the environment for potentially lower stopping power. Note that #4 buck usually costs a little less than 00 buck, and also note that there is no "rule" that says you can't go IN BETWEEN with (say) #1 buck.
Bottom line, either the reduced recoil 00 buck or the #4 can work fine, each with its own plusses and minuses. For outdoor use, I'd say its a no brainer, get the 00 buck. For indoor use, either one, maybe favoring the #4 if you've got thin walls or there are a lot of other people around.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by rsnyder55
Everything else being equal, the number of pellets has nothing to do with the recoil, it is the total weight of the pellets and the velocity they are pushed that determines the recoil.
For every action, there is an opposite and equal reaction.
This.
F = MA
Recoil force = total payload mass x its acceleration.
Recoil isn't affected by how many pellets are in the shell, its what they're total mass is and how fast they're spit out of the gun.
Anyway, to answer the question, I think the low recoil OO buckshot loads are actually PERFECT for home defense use. Yes, they're less powerful than the "normal" recoil 9-ball or "magnum" 12-ball loads, but at short defense distances of ten yards or less, this small difference in power isn't going to matter. They'll still make a devastating wound.
Some people like the #4 shot loads for home defense because they offer both a little less recoil, but mostly because they are less likely to "overpenetrate" and go through walls, doors, etc, indoors, causing inadvertent damage.
The problem is that rounds that offer less "overpenetration" also offer less PRIMARY penetration, and something like a #4 round probably isn't going to be quite as a effective as the heavier 00 buckshot, especially if fired through an intermediate barrier like thick winter clothing. So there is a tradeoff there. You're trading less risk to bystanders and the environment for potentially lower stopping power. Note that #4 buck usually costs a little less than 00 buck, and also note that there is no "rule" that says you can't go IN BETWEEN with (say) #1 buck.
Bottom line, either the reduced recoil 00 buck or the #4 can work fine, each with its own plusses and minuses. For outdoor use, I'd say its a no brainer, get the 00 buck. For indoor use, either one, maybe favoring the #4 if you've got thin walls or there are a lot of other people around.
Actually the correct formula is E= Mass X Velocity Squared.[;)]
The formula you stated was for momentum not energy.0 -
Hey Guy's Thanks for all the info!!! I'm sorry for the mix up on pellet size hadn't had my daily caffeine yet!! Thanks again! [:p] 0 -
The best way is to test the load in your weapon for function. I like the factory #4 Buck 25cal (41 buffered pellets 3")for most applications. I also load and have shot upwards of thousands of 00 32 cal 12 pellets 2 3/4 as a short mag. Be sure and pattern you gun at distances you think you might use it at. 0 -
quote:Actually the correct formula is E= Mass X Velocity Squared.[;)]
The formula you stated was for momentum not energy.
I apologize here for hijacking this into a dissertation on high-school physics, but what I posted earlier is correct, and what you just posted is incorrect.
You just (wrongly) cited the formula for KINETIC ENERGY (not force) which is actually half the product of mass and the square of velocity. Ek = (1/2)mv^2.
Or perhaps you were coyly mis-citing Einstein's special theory of relativity, which states that the energy contained within a piece of matter is equal to its mass times the square of the velocity of light. If you were, I'll just say, this law typically isn't applied to the mechanics of conventional firearms!
I cited Newton's second law, which states that the FORCE on a moving object is equal to its mass multiplied by its ACCELERATION. I believe I cited that rule correctly.
This holds true for a gun in recoil. The FORCE applied to the GUN, by a fired shotshell is equal to its mass x its acceleration (not its velocity). Note that FORCE and ENERGY are related, but different concepts. FORCE and MOMENTUM are also related, but different concepts.
Typically gun recoil is expressed as kinetic energy, for comparison purposes, since that's the best approximation of the "ouch factor" in shooting a longarm. I'll explain why below.
The formula for momentum (which is quite distinct from ALL of the above) is mass x velocity. Momentum is typically conserved during a collision or separation of objects, where as kinetic energy typically is NOT.
So when you fire a gun, the bullet and the gun will be imparted equal MOMENTUM. If they were imparted equal KINETIC ENERGY, you couldn't fire a gun, because the damage it would do to your shoulder would equal the damage it did to the target! Instead, the much heavier gun will offer much less kinetic energy than the bullet, and this is why all else being equal, heavier guns hurt less when being fired.
Now, trying to tie this back into the posters earlier question, if fire the SAME payload with a LESSER velocity, felt recoil will be reduced proportionally.
Alternatively, you can fire a LESSER payload at the SAME velocity, to achieve a reduction in felt recoil.
Now, what I DID say wrong is the following:
quote:Recoil force = total payload mass x its acceleration.
Technically recoil force equals the mass of the GUN x its acceleration. I was oversimplifying there, just to make the point that its the total mass of shotgun pellets that matters for recoil, not the mass of individual pellets. Again, technically recoil is usually measured in terms of its energy.
If we want to relate recoil ENERGY to payload mass it works like this because of conservation of momentum:
Gun velocity (Vg) x Gun mass (Mg) = Muzzle velocity (Vs) x Shot mass (Ms).
Or: Vg = (Vs)(Ms)/(Mg)
Gun kinetic energy (Ekg)= (1/2)(Mg)(Vg)^2
Solving for above
Ekg = (1/2)(Mg)(Vs*Ms/Mg)^2
= (1/2)(Mg)(Vs*Ms)^2/Mg*Mg
= (Vs*Ms)^2/2Mg
Assuming I got that right, and to retranslate that into English, the kinetic energy of a recoiling gun equals the square of the projectile momentum divided by twice the gun mass.
And more important than anything I just said is what Charlie said above. No matter what load you choose, you need to pattern it and test it for reliability in your given shotgun before relying on it for defense.0
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