must non-Milsurp C&R be complete?
For a gun over 50 years old to qualify for C&R status, must it be complete? If not 100% there, what can be missing?
I'm selling a Remington 121 parts/project but I'd like to know if I can list it as being C&R. Buttstock and everything that attaches to it - trigger group, hammer, etc - are all there. Receiver, barrel, external mag tube and in-receiver feeding section are there. Missing the bolt group/carrier, internal mag tube, etc.
So... I know it is old enough. Is enough of it there to be sold to C&R ?
Also, as a non-licensee, can I ship a C&R to a C&R holder out of state directly, or must it go to a 01 FFL (who can then do a C&R xfer to a C&R holder)?
Thanks!
I'm selling a Remington 121 parts/project but I'd like to know if I can list it as being C&R. Buttstock and everything that attaches to it - trigger group, hammer, etc - are all there. Receiver, barrel, external mag tube and in-receiver feeding section are there. Missing the bolt group/carrier, internal mag tube, etc.
So... I know it is old enough. Is enough of it there to be sold to C&R ?
Also, as a non-licensee, can I ship a C&R to a C&R holder out of state directly, or must it go to a 01 FFL (who can then do a C&R xfer to a C&R holder)?
Thanks!
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ATF rulings don't cover every single possibility, so this is a question that requires either good judgement, or a decision letter from ATF.
Their ruling for C&R's uses the phrase "original configuration" (milsurp or commercial is irrelevant). Obviously, no Remington 121 was ever shipped without a bolt group & mag tube. Would the fellas with the bulges in the cheap suits make an issue of it? I don't know, I just try to avoid stress & worry at all costs. I wouldn't do it, especially since it may only save the buyer money, not me!
A nonlicensee can ship any gun to a C&R licensee (state/local law permitting), or to an FFL, anywhere in the US.
Neal
EDIT 1: This is what ggp is referring to:
"ATF has recognized only complete,
assembled firearms as curios or relics."
ATF P5300.4, page 160.
Don't see much that is open to interpretion there.0 -
Don't know the subject.
Is a 121 a C&R? I thought it was just a gun.0 -
quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
Don't know the subject.
Is a 121 a C&R? I thought it was just a gun.
They were last made in 1954, so the "older than 50 years" rule kicks in... I just don't know if they have to be complete (like milsurp C&R items)0 -
It takes 3 things to make a C&R gun. Age is one of them. Must be complete is the other. The last is it must be on some magic list.
That is what I got from doing a quick search on the subject.
The list I read had the 12 but not the 121. It was not the most current list. have no idea where to find that list.
The ATF site has it clear, they say the gun must be complete. Military must be original, others can have changes like scope mounts. They still say they must be complete. If you need I can dig up the page I saw it one later. Have to go out for a while.0 -
Thanks. And it is age OR on a magic list....
quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
It takes 3 things to make a C&R gun. Age is one of them. Must be complete is the other. The last is it must be on some magic list.
That is what I got from doing a quick search on the subject.
The list I read had the 12 but not the 121. It was not the most current list. have no idea where to find that list.
The ATF site has it clear, they say the gun must be complete. Military must be original, others can have changes like scope mounts. They still say they must be complete. If you need I can dig up the page I saw it one later. Have to go out for a while.0 -
Llama is correct. It does not need to be on the ATF's published list if the specifc gun in question is 50 yrs old. A Marlin 39A that is 50 yrs old is a C&R. One that is 49 yrs old is not- but WILL BE next year. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
The last is it must be on some magic list.
incorrect. the guns that are on the list are guns that arent old enough(or they may be by now, but werent when they were listed) but have been granted special dispensation by the atf because they are significant in some capacity, usually historically relevant. thats the "curios" part of c&r. guns do not have to be on the list to be c&r compliant.
the "relics" is the 50 year old guns.0 -
Missed the "or".
Like I said I do not know the subject.
Very surprised a 121 would be anything but a shooter. But some of the other guns that qualify are nothing but shooters.
Will step away now.0 -
quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
Missed the "or".
Like I said I do not know the subject.
Very surprised a 121 would be anything but a shooter. But some of the other guns that qualify are nothing but shooters.
Will step away now.
This one in questions is just parts...
Thanks all for the definitive answers0 -
quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
Missed the "or".
Like I said I do not know the subject.
Very surprised a 121 would be anything but a shooter. But some of the other guns that qualify are nothing but shooters.
Will step away now.
Not for us to judge. C&R 'collectibility' [by law] doesn't now, and won't in the future ever delve into graded condition as a legal standpoint to determine whether a firearm falls within the realm of C&R.
It totally rests in the lap of the individual collector, as in a starter collector, say, that needs a firearm in 'shooter grade' (all he can afford) to round-out his/her collection.
The permutations are endless. The Fed's want nothing to do with the desirability angle of collecting. Up to us. Best, Joe0
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