Medalist Renaissance, what would you do
I need your expert advice. I have an opportunity to purchase a beautiful Medalist Renaissance from original owner, never fired, weights finished same as gun finish, case like new, includes manual, keys. Nicest firearm I have ever seen. Price $5600 includes shipping. My concern is the lot number and history of gun. Serial number is A70UUxxxx. I have contacted Browning Historian and they are sending me a certified letter confirming it as a Renaissance but say they are unable to give any history of the gun. Only history available (from dealer FFL records) shows gun was purchased by dealer from Browning Arms in Arnold Missouri in 1984. The dealer held on to the gun till 1996 when it was sold to original buyer. No one is able to explain the lot number.
Does the above make the gun more special, worth more
Would you consider this a true Renaissance
Wanting a Renaissance, would you pay $5600 or look for one with a standard serial number
Does the above make the gun more special, worth more
Would you consider this a true Renaissance
Wanting a Renaissance, would you pay $5600 or look for one with a standard serial number
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The letter "U" was the designator for Belgian made Challenger pistols. These pistols were made from the early 60's until 1976. After 1976 most production was terminated in Belgium, except for .22 target pistols that were sold under the FN name for the European market.
My take on your pistol is that although it is authentic Belgian made, Renaissance Medalist, it was made very late in the production cycle. Probably late 70's/early 80's from leftover parts that FN had in their stockrooms. This was years after the original Medalist manufacture had been terminated.
Your always going to have grief over the nonstandard serial number, even though the pistol is a authentic Renaissance Medalist. If this bothers you so much I wouldn't buy it, but wait for a early production Renaissance Medalist with a standard Medalist serial number designator to become available for sale.
EDIT #1, You guys don't see the forest because of the trees. My take on this is that the OP is doubtful about the purchase because it's a frankengun so to speak. It's not a original Renaissance Medalist made in the mid 60's/70s time frame, when they were in serial production at FN. Instead it was built on a Challenger frame that FN had lying around in their stock room, years after production run of the Medalist had ceased. Instead of assembling and selling it as a relatively low buck Challenger, they were out to maximize there return so the made it into a top of the line Renaissance Medalist.
EDIT #2, Obviously because of the use of what was originally a 1970 dated Challenger frame to make it. It's a unique and possibly a one of a kind Renaissance Medalist. It up to the OP to decide if the serial number anomaly would affect it's current and future value.
Personally from my experiences with big buck collectors, with display guns that are never meant to be shot. They want the gun to be pristine, untouched, unfired, from factory original production. Not something put together from left over parts years after serial production ended, specifically for the collectors market.0 -
"My concern is the lot number and history of gun"
Kinda a moot point, as the manufacturer has testified to
the gun's bonafides, and you have an unbroken custody-trail
back to the distributor.
With that said, does the off-beat SerNo cause undue concern?
After all, you will have the paperwork in hand
to quash any doubts.
I'd buy it. You have rock-solid evidence of the firearm
being authentic, if you were ever to sell (that is, you
find a Medalist more to your likeing read: standard SerNo). Joe
EDIT Text compression0 -
First thing you must ask yourself is do you want to purchase because you allways wanted one or are you buying for investment [?] As much as I hate to admit it IMHO there will be fewer and fewer Browning collectors in the future. So you will not see much if any rise in value no matter what your answer is to my original question. If you are buying because you want it. You have factory letter so go for this one. 0 -
Sound advice from Perry Shooter.
If you look at completed sales for other Browning Renaissance models (I don't recall ever seeing a Medallist offered), there have been few actual sales recently, & those were no where near $5,600. Seems too high to me.
OTOH, I have seen a lot of interest in the Renaissance 3 pistol sets, & one of these might tempt me at that price.
Neal
EDIT 1: The only comparable situation I can think of is Colt using left over parts to assemble Single Action Army revolvers, & AR-type rifles. These "transition" or "left over" guns are still genuine Colts, & over the years been just as desired as original run guns. We may not have concensus on your Browning, but the range of opinions here shows how difficult it is to evaluate the worth & desirability of unique guns. I think it's significant that it took the original dealer 12 years to find someone willing to pay his asking price.0 -
Bytedisk,
Generally, I'm way past over my head when it comes to high dollar collectables. However, it doesn't take me long to get a pretty good range of what people are paying for which items.
From what I can tell the Browning Medalist Renaissance isn't any more rare than any of the other Renaissance models put out by them. Asking prices are pretty high, but the only ones selling are about in the $3000 dollar range for 'new and unfired'. Since I didn't see any actual Medalists for sale, I'm going to assume by what is selling, that is about what that would actually go out the door for. If you don't agree with that I'd look high and low for prices to compare to. I'm sure the scale goes up exponentially, just like most any other collectable, when the condition of the firearm is extremely good. So, I'm in agreement that it is a very steep price for that firearm.
Perry,
I'm curious as to why Browning collectors are dwindling? I have seen many of their models, of various types of firearms, increase in price, no matter where they were made. Understand, I'm not challenging your opinion. Instead, I really would like to hear your insight into it. Collecting for investment has always kind of driven me nuts for that reason.
Edit:
Rufe,
Looking at the single tree, would this be any more rare than any other Medalist Renaissance? The provenance provided by the company pretty much explains what you said. And, what if as Perry says, Browning collectors are on the decline?
Rufe,
For the sake of the discussion here, I'm not understanding why a 'one-of-a-kind' with company provenance and proof of historical ownership would not be as collectable as a 'run-of-the-mill' Medalist? Granted it was made after the firearm was advertised to have been made, but it was made and sold from those very parts. Is that really how collectors minds think? That having a 'one-of-a-kind' in that realm actually HURTS the price?
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
EDIT 1: The only comparable situation I can think of is Colt using left over parts to assemble Single Action Army revolvers, & AR-type rifles. These "transition" or "left over" guns are still genuine Colts, & over the years been just as desired as original run guns. We may not have concensus on your Browning, but the range of opinions here shows how difficult it is to evaluate the worth & desirability of unique guns. I think it's significant that it took the original dealer 12 years to find someone willing to pay his asking price.
Excellent thought there Neal. It really shows what collectors are afraid of if they get to the top of the line in one firearm type. Those that want to obtain "an example" of a firearm and be able to demonstrate how it shot/shoots have my admiration. Those that want a firearm simply to see it valuate don't. I have to say I'm guilty somewhat of the latter so I don't feel it's in any way fair to pass judgement that way. However, I still feel the best reason for collecting firearms is to see how they shoot, and shoot in a fine style, such as the Medalist pistols Browning had made up for the public to enjoy. These firearms were definitely above the "commemorative" level and more into the "art imbued into shooting" level. I really have enjoyed shooting what decorated firearms that I have. Ones that look really nice as I take them out to shoot them. Not all firearms need to have that 'utility' look about them if you shoot them. But, then again it sort of opens up the class differences when someone shoots one and someone won't shoot them because they look pretty.0 -
Great looking pistol with the records to back it up. I have a Medalist and consider it the best .22 in my collection....love the gun. The price seems a bit on the steep side to me but if I wanted it, I would go for it! There are a fixed number of these pistols and there will always be a market for them. I learned a long time ago that you pay for what you get. Since it has been sitting around for while I make a counter offer but, again, if I wanted it I would go for it and never look back. 0 -
The last Renaissance I saw sold went for $3500. That is no where the $5600 they are asking for this one. 0
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