barrel leading SUCCESS
well, after much travail, many (almost) tears, a few death threats, and more than several "thought cakes" I've (mostly) resolved the barrel leading dilemma.
Turns out, it was the lube, Alox. In retrospect, that's the only thing it could be (besides the alloy) since that was the only common denominator across 2 molds, 2 calibers, and 5 different guns.
I mixed the Alox with Minwax floor paste finishing wax (2:1 minwax to alox by weight, melted concoction down, let cool.) It provides some substance and "grab" to the lube on the bullets, which is what was apparently sorely needed.
I still get SOME leading, but not NEARLY as much as I used to, even with fairly snappy loads. I'm considering calling Lee and seeing if they will exchange my 2 sizing dies for ones 1/1000th bigger and see if I get a better fit.
I'm still having to gas check my 38/357s, but I don't mind this, as 3 cents/bullet is a small price to pay for as many bullets as I can cast.
The main takeaway from all this is that for all the advice I got, all the questions I asked, all the begging I did, pretty much no one here or on a cast bullets board ever really suggested lube; the "answers" were almost all invariably related to alloy, bore diameter, bore condition, and everything except lube (a few posts by perceptive members notwithstanding.)
The conclusion? When someone is having leading issues with several calibers and guns and the only 2 possible suspects are lube and alloy, it's either lube or alloy, not any fault of the gun or barrels.
Turns out, it was the lube, Alox. In retrospect, that's the only thing it could be (besides the alloy) since that was the only common denominator across 2 molds, 2 calibers, and 5 different guns.
I mixed the Alox with Minwax floor paste finishing wax (2:1 minwax to alox by weight, melted concoction down, let cool.) It provides some substance and "grab" to the lube on the bullets, which is what was apparently sorely needed.
I still get SOME leading, but not NEARLY as much as I used to, even with fairly snappy loads. I'm considering calling Lee and seeing if they will exchange my 2 sizing dies for ones 1/1000th bigger and see if I get a better fit.
I'm still having to gas check my 38/357s, but I don't mind this, as 3 cents/bullet is a small price to pay for as many bullets as I can cast.
The main takeaway from all this is that for all the advice I got, all the questions I asked, all the begging I did, pretty much no one here or on a cast bullets board ever really suggested lube; the "answers" were almost all invariably related to alloy, bore diameter, bore condition, and everything except lube (a few posts by perceptive members notwithstanding.)
The conclusion? When someone is having leading issues with several calibers and guns and the only 2 possible suspects are lube and alloy, it's either lube or alloy, not any fault of the gun or barrels.
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Good job sticking with it so to speak. Reloading can be fun or a drag. Casting bullets gives you a whole new crop of variables to play with. Making your own lube and gas checks provides an almost endless supply of stuff to play with too. Next is making your own mold/design. 0 -
You can lap out your Lee sizing dies with a dowel, some crocus cloth and a drill. Slot in the dowel, fold the crocus cloth to a snug fit and keep it moving in and out while you run the drill at medium speed. Run it for 60 seconds, then clean the die. Size a bullet and measure. Repeat if needed. 0 -
Glad you found what was going on. Let me elaborate on what's happening (or at least my WAG).
By mixing the Alox with paste wax, you're creating a better seal to the bore and maximizing the contact of the lube to the bore. It's still the alox that's actually doing most of the lubing, it's just now more is sticking to the bullet and getting in contact with the bore.
I still stand by what I said regarding bullet fit; a properly fit and sized bullet lubed with lee liquid alox at the velocities/pressures you're talking about WILL do the job; the other wax is providing a bit of a gas check effect and upping the 'fudge factor' room. However, that's my theory and main thing is, you got it working. [:)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by jonk
Glad you found what was going on. Let me elaborate on what's happening (or at least my WAG).
By mixing the Alox with paste wax, you're creating a better seal to the bore and maximizing the contact of the lube to the bore. It's still the alox that's actually doing most of the lubing, it's just now more is sticking to the bullet and getting in contact with the bore.
I still stand by what I said regarding bullet fit; a properly fit and sized bullet lubed with lee liquid alox at the velocities/pressures you're talking about WILL do the job; the other wax is providing a bit of a gas check effect and upping the 'fudge factor' room. However, that's my theory and main thing is, you got it working. [:)]
Possible, but it seems to me that the added waxiness of the lube mix is actually lubing the bullets in the barrel, reducing friction and hence, leading.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Rocky Raab
You can lap out your Lee sizing dies with a dowel, some crocus cloth and a drill. Slot in the dowel, fold the crocus cloth to a snug fit and keep it moving in and out while you run the drill at medium speed. Run it for 60 seconds, then clean the die. Size a bullet and measure. Repeat if needed.
Cool. Good to know. Would "upsizing" the casts to .358 and .453 do the trick you think?0 -
Mixing your lube is like the Lyman Ideal lube that is a Alox and Beeswax mix yhat I used most of the time in my sizer-lubers. When pushing my cast bullets faster, I used the harder Rooster Red.
With either there was no leading problems. Of course the lubers forced the lube into the groves.
Read www.lasc.us cast bullets for beginers and experts article. Lots of info for you there [;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
Mixing your lube is like the Lyman Ideal lube that is a Alox and Beeswax mix yhat I used most of the time in my sizer-lubers. When pushing my cast bullets faster, I used the harder Rooster Red.
With either there was no leading problems. Of course the lubers forced the lube into the groves.
Read www.lasc.us cast bullets for beginers and experts article. Lots of info for you there [;)]
Yeah, I bookmarked Applegate's book on that site, but haven't read it yet.0 -
The age-old NRA formula of 50% Alox 2138F and 50% bees wax has never been surpassed by other concoctions in my book. I mailed you a bullet sample pack, those bullets are lubed with the above formula; I mixed it in bulk in the basement over a Coleman stove about 30 years ago. I have a single three pound coffee can full remaining, I have lubed a LOT of bullets over the years. The wife at the time was not impressed when she found me using the huge kettle I found in the kitchen cabinet nor was the smell of burning grease and beeswax filling the house soothing to her nerves....[:D]
Here is some more data.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=930800 -
quote:Originally posted by bpost
The age-old NRA formula of 50% Alox 2138F and 50% bees wax has never been surpassed by other concoctions in my book. I mailed you a bullet sample pack, those bullets are lubed with the above formula; I mixed it in bulk in the basement over a Coleman stove about 30 years ago. I have a single three pound coffee can full remaining, I have lubed a LOT of bullets over the years. The wife at the time was not impressed when she found me using the huge kettle I found in the kitchen cabinet nor was the smell of burning grease and beeswax filling the house soothing to her nerves....[:D]
Here is some more data.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=93080
Sweeeeeet. Anything else I should know?0
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