glock 23 in 10mm?
I have a Glock 23 in .40 and it's about the perfect size for my ccw preferences. But I want a 10mm to play with. Why does Glock make a full size and a sub compact in 10mm but not medium "23" size in that caliber? or am I missing something?
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The G 23 is manufactured for 40 S & W length cartridges, not 10 MM length. If you want a compact size Glock chambered for the 10 mm you will have to use the G 29 Model. Their new 4th generation guns are supposed to be much better in that regard. Although I don't know if the G 29 is being made in a 4th generation version? 0 -
quote:Originally posted by midnightrunpaintballer
I have a Glock 23 in .40 and it's about the perfect size for my ccw preferences. But I want a 10mm to play with. Why does Glock make a full size and a sub compact in 10mm but not medium "23" size in that caliber? or am I missing something?
No, I don't think Glock makes a compact 10mm, only full sized (G20) and subcompact (G29).
http://www.glock.com/english/pistols_models.htm
Why not? Probably not enough demand for one to bother.0 -
Hmm, im gonna have to have a chat with someone over at glock. [:(] i have a demand! I thought there were plenty of 10mm lovers out there??? 0 -
Does anyone even roll them to the original power? If not then why bother? Just run hot .40S&W and call it a day.
quote:Originally posted by m1aguy
Yes, they do.
Double Tap: IE: 125gr. @ 1600fps / 710ft/lbs- Glock 20
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=435
Buffalo Bore: IE:155 gr. Barnes TAC-XP /over 1400fps
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=273
and some others
Good to know.
Now shot from such a short barrel will the powder burn outside of the muzzel like a 3 foot flame [:D]? With little or no improvements over the .40S&W?0 -
The G29 & G30 are the same size as a G19/G23. Same barrel length.
Lil wider in the grip & slide.0 -
quote:Originally posted by yoshmyster
Does anyone even roll them to the original power? If not then why bother? Just run hot .40S&W and call it a day.
Yes, they do.
Double Tap: IE: 125gr. @ 1600fps / 710ft/lbs- Glock 20
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_25&products_id=435
Buffalo Bore: IE:155 gr. Barnes TAC-XP /over 1400fps
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=273
and some others0 -
quote:Originally posted by drobs
The G29 & G30 are the same size as a G19/G23. Same barrel length.
Lil wider in the grip & slide.
Well, here are the published specs from Glock:
http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=glock_faq_glock_model_guide
G29 ("subcompact"), 10 mm, 10 round capacity, OAL 6.77", height 4.45", width 1.27", sight radius 5.95", barrel 3.78", weight w/o mag 24.69oz, empty mag weight 2.40 oz, full mag weight ~8.29 oz, trigger pull ~5.5 lbs
G19 ("compact"), 9 mm, 15, 6.85", 5.00", 1.18", 6.02", 4.02", 20.99 oz, 2.46 oz, ~8.99 oz, ~5.5 lbs
G23 ("compact"), .40, 13, 6.85", 5.00", 1.18", 6.02", 4.02", 21.16 oz, 2.46 oz, ~9.87 oz, ~5.5 lbs
G26 ("subcompact"), 9 mm, 10, 6.29", 4.17", 1.18", 5.67", 3.46", 19.75 oz, 1.98 oz, ~6.35 oz, ~5.5 lbs
As you can see, the G19/23 are identical in size; just the mag sizes and weights are a bit different. I didn't list the specs for the G27 subcompact 40SW, but they're the same as the G26 9mm subcompact.
Now, Glock calls the G29 "subcompact", but looking at the actual specs, you can see its s little bigger than the 9mm/40SW subcompacts in terms of both overall length (purple) and height (blue), but a little smaller than the 9mm/40SW compacts.
Specifically, the small 10mm is about 0.5" shorter than the compact 9mm/40SW guns, but 0.3" taller than the subcompacts. Its also about .12" shorter in overall length than the compacts, but 0.5" longer than the subcompacts.
In sum, the overall length of the small 10mm (including barrel length) is only a hair shorter than the compact 9mm/40SW, but the grip size is closer to the subcompact guns.
So, that answers why there isn't a "compact" 10mm Glock; Glocks "subcompact" one appears to be a compromise between the compact/subcompact overall sizes.
I guess Glock probably felt that 10mm is enough of a "niche" caliber that it didn't need three frame sizes, just two ("big" and "small").
Also, my guess is that (something like a 357 magnum) performance of the 10mm is probably gimped from a super-short barrel, to the point where you'd get lots of extra muzzle flash, but not that much ballistic advantage over a .40SW if you really ran a true subcompact barrel length.0 -
Just to clear things up, as I have both a Glock 20, and a 29...
The 29 is a Compact, not Sub-compact(my 29 was made the first year, and they called them compacts back then). It is not the same size as the 19, and 23. It is wider, and longer in the grip, as a 10mm, WILL not fit into a 9mm/40 S&W length magazine well. The barrel, is longer on the 19, and the slide is wider on the 29.
As for a 10mm in a 22 frame...it's NOT going to happen, as the 10mm will NOT fit lengthwiae in the magazine or magazine well. Yes, I agree, that the ultimate 10mm would be on the Ruger LC9 platform, or the S&W Shield platform, or possibly for us old school(all metal guns) folks, on the S&W 3913 platform...but its not going to happen either. The magazines are too small, among other structural strenght deficiencies.
Para Ord once cataloged a 3 1/2 inch double stack 1911 type 10mm, but I don't believe it was ever built...too much slide velocity in testing, and the guns destroyed themselves. Same goes for the S&W 1016 in 10mm.
Lots of folks just don't understand that the 10mm is a high output round, that falls on the spectrum of bottom end 41 magnum power levels, when loaded to levels of what it was designed for. In otherwords, it is near impossible to put it into a mouse gun, unless it is like a WELL made double derringer, where it has no slide to function. S&W has put it on a revolver platform, and it was the N-frame, not the L-frame, so that should tell you something also.
Hope this has explained a few things.
Best
EDIT 1
Drobs,
I have handled them all in person. I have a 17, 19, 20, and 29. The 29 has NOT the same handling characteristics as the 19 or 23. And I have big hands so the grips on the 20 and 29 do not bother me.
Best0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by drobs
The G29 & G30 are the same size as a G19/G23. Same barrel length.
Lil wider in the grip & slide.
Well, here are the published specs from Glock:
http://www.glockfaq.com/content.aspx?ckey=glock_faq_glock_model_guide
G29 ("subcompact"), 10 mm, 10 round capacity, OAL 6.77", height 4.45", width 1.27", sight radius 5.95", barrel 3.78", weight w/o mag 24.69oz, empty mag weight 2.40 oz, full mag weight ~8.29 oz, trigger pull ~5.5 lbs
G19 ("compact"), 9 mm, 15, 6.85", 5.00", 1.18", 6.02", 4.02", 20.99 oz, 2.46 oz, ~8.99 oz, ~5.5 lbs
G23 ("compact"), .40, 13, 6.85", 5.00", 1.18", 6.02", 4.02", 21.16 oz, 2.46 oz, ~9.87 oz, ~5.5 lbs
G26 ("subcompact"), 9 mm, 10, 6.29", 4.17", 1.18", 5.67", 3.46", 19.75 oz, 1.98 oz, ~6.35 oz, ~5.5 lbs
As you can see, the G19/23 are identical in size; just the mag sizes and weights are a bit different. I didn't list the specs for the G27 subcompact 40SW, but they're the same as the G26 9mm subcompact.
Now, Glock calls the G29 "subcompact", but looking at the actual specs, you can see its s little bigger than the 9mm/40SW subcompacts in terms of both overall length (purple) and height (blue), but a little smaller than the 9mm/40SW compacts.
Specifically, the small 10mm is about 0.5" shorter than the compact 9mm/40SW guns, but 0.3" taller than the subcompacts. Its also about .12" shorter in overall length than the compacts, but 0.5" longer than the subcompacts.
In sum, the overall length of the small 10mm (including barrel length) is only a hair shorter than the compact 9mm/40SW, but the grip size is closer to the subcompact guns.
So, that answers why there isn't a "compact" 10mm Glock; Glocks "subcompact" one appears to be a compromise between the compact/subcompact overall sizes.
I guess Glock probably felt that 10mm is enough of a "niche" caliber that it didn't need three frame sizes, just two ("big" and "small").
Also, my guess is that (something like a 357 magnum) performance of the 10mm is probably gimped from a super-short barrel, to the point where you'd get lots of extra muzzle flash, but not that much ballistic advantage over a .40SW if you really ran a true subcompact barrel length.
Go handle em in person and compare them side by side with a G19 or G23. Thickness is noticeably different but OAL is just about the same.
Then compare them to a G27/G26 the G29/G30 are larger than those subcompact pistols.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBIfTAQpQDw0 -
quote:Originally posted by drobs
Go handle em in person and compare them side by side with a G19 or G23. Thickness is noticeably different but OAL is just about the same.
Then compare them to a G27/G26 the G29/G30 are larger than those subcompact pistols
I have handled them in person, thanks.
Thickness affects "feel" of the gun more in the hand, but not so much concealability. Length of the grip is more relevant to concealability.
Anyway, the specs take some of the subjectivity out of this, and I think they speak for themselves.
Whether this model should be called "compact" or "subcompact" is largely semantics. Glock calls it "subcompact", though to me, you can't have a "subcompact" model unless you also have a "compact" one.
Here's G26 subcompact 9mm vs the "subcompact" G30 45ACP (which is the same size as the G29 10mm). Again, on the 10mm gun the slide is comparable to the "subcompact" guns, but the grip LENGTH is closer to the subcompact ones.
Again, my personal take on this is that I have little use for a compact/subcompact 10mm. To me that's mostly a hunting cartridge, not a concealed carry one.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by drobs
Go handle em in person and compare them side by side with a G19 or G23. Thickness is noticeably different but OAL is just about the same.
Then compare them to a G27/G26 the G29/G30 are larger than those subcompact pistols
I have handled them in person, thanks.
Thickness affects "feel" of the gun more in the hand, but not so much concealability. Length of the grip is more relevant to concealability.
Anyway, the specs take some of the subjectivity out of this, and I think they speak for themselves.
Whether this model should be called "compact" or "subcompact" is largely semantics. Glock calls it "subcompact", though to me, you can't have a "subcompact" model unless you also have a "compact" one.
Here's G26 subcompact 9mm vs the "subcompact" G30 45ACP (which is the same size as the G29 10mm). Again, on the 10mm gun the slide is comparable to the "subcompact" guns, but the grip LENGTH is closer to the subcompact ones.
Again, my personal take on this is that I have little use for a compact/subcompact 10mm. To me that's mostly a hunting cartridge, not a concealed carry one.
I think we're arguing the same point. It aint a subcompact pistol.0
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