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Smith and Wesson M&P 223 rifle

CDMead
I've seen these on the auction side for $650 buy it now which is cheaper than I can get a parts kit and receiver.

My instinct says it's too good to be true.

Is this a legitimate price? Any input on the serviceability of the rifle?

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Charlie
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • ammo guy
    This model has been "cheapened" by removing the forward assist and the dust cover. That's one reason they are cheaper. I presume the rest of the gun is similar to the regular M&P 15. I have not used the forward assist in years so this is probably no big deal especially if you use only factory ammo, the dust cover is again probably not a big deal either to most people.
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  • llama
    Don't forget to add in $25-50 in shipping, plus whatever your transfer dealer will charge...
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  • CDMead
    quote:Originally posted by ammo guy
    This model has been "cheapened" by removing the forward assist and the dust cover. That's one reason they are cheaper. I presume the rest of the gun is similar to the regular M&P 15. I have not used the forward assist in years so this is probably no big deal especially if you use only factory ammo, the dust cover is again probably not a big deal either to most people.


    Ok. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Personally, I'm going to clear the chamber before using a forward assist as IMHO, forward assist in all but the most dire situations is a kaboom waiting to happen. The dust cover is just another feature I'd have to consider.

    I'm guessing the barrel is probably not chrome lined, and it might not be a NATO spec chamber, but does anyone have anything bad to say about this platform for general plinking?

    Even with shipping and my FFL it's still below $700, and I'm guessing there's some sort of warranty.
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  • tsr1965
    quote:Originally posted by CDMead
    quote:Originally posted by ammo guy
    This model has been "cheapened" by removing the forward assist and the dust cover. That's one reason they are cheaper. I presume the rest of the gun is similar to the regular M&P 15. I have not used the forward assist in years so this is probably no big deal especially if you use only factory ammo, the dust cover is again probably not a big deal either to most people.


    Ok. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Personally, I'm going to clear the chamber before using a forward assist as IMHO, forward assist in all but the most dire situations is a kaboom waiting to happen. The dust cover is just another feature I'd have to consider.

    I'm guessing the barrel is probably not chrome lined, and it might not be a NATO spec chamber, but does anyone have anything bad to say about this platform for general plinking?

    Even with shipping and my FFL it's still below $700, and I'm guessing there's some sort of warranty.


    If you have junk in the chamber, the forward assist is not going to help you anyway. The forward assist was designed for the times when the magazine feed was slow enough to Raymond the bolt going into full battery. Like when the 30 round magazine was stuffed full with 30 rounds, and not 28, like most GI's learned to do on the early AR-15's that had no forward assist.

    As for your original question, I would personally opt for the version with all the goodies. However, the lower you will get with the less expensive version is a standard lower, that you can pin any upper on.

    Whichever way you go, you want to do it soon...do it now...as the shelves are beginning to bare in the wake of Obama II.

    Best

    EDIT 1

    Just so you guys know, that DPMS has been offering this very same platform for the last 4-5 years...no dust cover, no shell casing deflector, and no forward assist. They have not only done this on their AR-15 platform's, but also on their AR-10 platforms. They are the "Sportical" models, and also priced very competitively.

    Jug,

    Just to clear things up, there is a drastic difference from the original AR-15's(and yes, they were AR-15's, not M-16's), given to our guys in Veitnam, and today's M4, and its variant's. They didn't have all of those so called not needed features like the forward assist, and dust cover. Combined with that, and the exceptionally tight tolerances, it cost a good many soldier, the ultimate price.

    However, even with the "looser tolerances" of today's M4's, and faster twist barrels, for heavier ammo, they still put those features on the rifle for a purpose. In no way, even with the so called loose tolerances, are the AR-15's/M4's comparable to the AK-47. The AK is still more reliable, and the AR is still more accurate.

    Best

    EDIT 2

    Rufe,

    Sometimes, it does no good to point out the obvious. Other's on here have also tried telling the Taurus crowd, that as long as Taurus pays their bills, they will not get a bad review by the gun rags...or anyone else for that matter that chooses to advertise by means of testing, and monetary support.

    Fact of the matter is, S&W, used to be made by STAG Arms. I am not sure if they still are, in whole, or in part, or at all.

    Best

    EDIT 3

    quote:Aside from the nonsense out there the facts are that Smith & Wesson makes a high quality AR15 at a lower price and some simply just cant accept that.
    Regards.

    Yes, S&W did offer the Sport for a decent price, where one could get it off a dealer's shelf for $700.00 yes. I will give you that they did make a less expensive offering now. But did they make it? They probably MIM'ed the hammer and trigger, and bought the rest of the stuff, including the reciever's. Yes, they most likely assembled them at the S&W facility. Never said that it was not quality. Oh, and one last thing...S&W is not offering the Sport any more, or at least not making any, as they are not taking any order's, untill their backlog winds down...that was from the S&W rep. A lot of manufacturer's are in the same boat, Ruger included.

    On the flip side, I can get a DPMS ORacle, for under $600.00, and it has all the features of the dust cover, shell deflector, and forward assist.

    But lastly, my MAIN point was, if you want something, you best be getting it soon, as the shelves are getting bare, and the prices climbing.

    Best
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  • Juggernaut
    I have carried the Colt M16-M4 for many years and with varying experiences contrary to popular belief and prefer the Smith & Wesson MP15 which has a better fit and finish and a bit of a looser tolerance imho which is better giving it more of an 'AK' sort of reliability I have found over the government contract overpriced and overrated AR15's and without the ridiculous prices, nonsense and hype.
    I was also researching the Smith & Wesson MP15 Sport 811036 as well and was intrigued by Smith & Wesson's innovative AR15 design, who kept what you needed and discarded what you don't in a no-nonsense firearm for target, field, defense or shtf.
    The Smith & Wesson MP15 811000 and Smith & Wesson MP15 Sport 811036 are both excellent anything, anywhere weapons and the only real differences between the 2 rifles are:
    1. Melonite coating as opposed to chrome lining which is reportedly better than chrome lining with no dimensional differences and at a lower cost as well.
    2. Dust cover removed, being unnecessary as it is open when firing and other weapons do not use this.
    3. Forward assist removed, another unnecessary item which was a hold over and added to the original design and other weapons do not use this.
    4. Notch in the heavy barrel removed, being unnecessary as an option for a grenade launcher.
    5. Trigger guard is not removable, but neither are several other trigger guards on other weapons.
    6. Carry handle was removed, however can be replaced if needed.
    7. Rifling twist rate goes to 1:8, a change from the 1:9 which is still a good balance between light and heavy ammunition.
    Other than that is about it, a no-nonsense, excellent quality and reliable weapon which I am considering switching over to for my AR15/M4 weapons.

    http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757785_-1_757784_757784_image

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/06/benjamin-t-shotzberger/%EF%BB%BF-gun-review-smith-and-wesson-mp15-sport/

    http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/smith-wesson-mp15-sport-556mm/

    http://www.burlingtoneng.com/wear_resistance.html
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  • CDMead
    Thank you for your input.

    I really don't NEED another AR15 platform rifle, but at that price, I'm going to give it quite a thought.
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  • Juggernaut
    quote:Originally posted by CDMead
    Thank you for your input.

    I really don't NEED another AR15 platform rifle, but at that price, I'm going to give it quite a thought.


    Your quite welcome.
    I am also looking at trying a recoil buffer and piston conversion kit as well and along with the smarter loose tolerance design by Smith & Wesson should even be more reliable... Here are some more articles on the Smith & Wesson MP15 concerning reliability, quality and function since they are relatively similar besides the obvious changes...

    http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/longgun_reviews_swmp15_121906/

    http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/back-black-sws-mp15

    Aside from the bs nonsense out there from charlatans and trolls the facts are that Smith & Wesson makes a high quality AR15 at a lower price and some simply just cant accept that.

    CDMead, try CDNN Investments, they are good people and usually have really good deals even below what alot of others have. Just talked to S&W who is reportedly very pleased with their newly designed Smith & Wesson MP15 Sport 811036 and it is going to be a standard as the Smith & Wesson MP15 811000 is. Now if they would just make an AR10 in the 7.62/.308 that would be very nice.
    Regards
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  • rufe-snow
    quote:Originally posted by Juggernaut
    quote:Originally posted by CDMead
    Thank you for your input.

    I really don't NEED another AR15 platform rifle, but at that price, I'm going to give it quite a thought.


    Your quite welcome.
    I am also looking at trying a recoil buffer and piston conversion kit as well and along with the smarter loose tolerance design by Smith & Wesson should even be more reliable... Here are some more articles on the Smith & Wesson MP15 concerning reliability, quality and function since they are relatively similar besides the obvious changes...

    http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/01/03/longgun_reviews_swmp15_121906/

    http://archives.gunsandammo.com/content/back-black-sws-mp15



    No offense, meant. But I would be very wary of the advertising dollars driven drivel that emanates from the gun rags. To expect them to be make impartial assessments of guns that are their advertising mealticket ain't going to happen.
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  • CDMead
    Thank you all for the insights.

    Just so you know, I am not a novice as far as the AR platform goes. I have assembled several from kits and safe a couple of "retro" M16 and M16A1 (semi only) type rifles plus the ubiquetous M Forgery. My favorites are either a Colt 604 uppered "retro" or a 9mm midlength.

    I also have several AK type (again semi only) variants my favorite being a pre ban Egyptian.

    I asked the question because the pricing was too good to be true. Also known as, "there's no Santa Claus in the gun business." I am considering one because, well frankly, there is room in the safe and nature abhors a vacuum.

    On the original short comings of the AR platform in Vietnam, I believe a combination of improper powders in the ammunition leading to excessive bolt velocities and a lack of a chrome chamber (as per the original design) to save a couple of bucks cost GIs dearly. Of course, bean counters don't go on patrol.

    As far as the S&W Sport goes, I would consider it as a well priced entry level rifle that will more than likely be plenty reliable for plinking. It also couldn't hurt for possible trade fodder as the prices are doing nothing but going up.

    Thank you again for all your input. [:)]

    Charlie
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  • Juggernaut
    quote:Originally posted by CDMead
    Thank you all for the insights. Just so you know, I am not a novice as far as the AR platform goes. I have assembled several from kits and safe a couple of "retro" M16 and M16A1 (semi only) type rifles plus the ubiquetous M Forgery. My favorites are either a Colt 604 uppered "retro" or a 9mm midlength.
    I also have several AK type (again semi only) variants my favorite being a pre ban Egyptian.
    I asked the question because the pricing was too good to be true. Also known as, "there's no Santa Claus in the gun business." I am considering one because, well frankly, there is room in the safe and nature abhors a vacuum.
    On the original short comings of the AR platform in Vietnam, I believe a combination of improper powders in the ammunition leading to excessive bolt velocities and a lack of a chrome chamber (as per the original design) to save a couple of bucks cost GIs dearly. Of course, bean counters don't go on patrol.
    As far as the S&W Sport goes, I would consider it as a well priced entry level rifle that will more than likely be plenty reliable for plinking. It also couldn't hurt for possible trade fodder as the prices are doing nothing but going up.
    Thank you again for all your input. [:)]
    Charlie

    Actually technically since the design originally came from Eugene Stoner the Colt is also an m4gery as they say, which is silly anyway about as much as all of that + everything in forums, not old school.
    The Colt's too tight of tolerances also played a roll and is another reason it has some of those similar problems still today and is one reason that the AK is so reliable because it has a looser tolerance by design.
    I like the S&W as I couldn't get it to jam despite purposely trying because of its looser tolerance design that played a roll no doubt an 'AK' sort of reliability or as close as an AR will ever get anyway. Inadvertently however S&W may have intended to make an entry level AR but as it turns out with a few modifications they made another target, field, defense and shtf weapon, or as is said an anything, anywhere weapon imho.
    I too really like the AK-47/AKM as well and since the design itself is so reliable that if one completely works even a Romanian Wasr 10/63 AKM (that so many disregard as reliable which is nonsense), that it will perform just as well as a more expensive AK-47 or AKM, however it may not be as pretty for those that need that sort of thing.
    Although of all the Romanian Wasr 10/63 AKM's that I have come across none have been in need of more than slight adjustments(despite the horror stories) and are cable of 300-500 meter shots at man sized targets, however peep sights or a decent scope helps too.
    Regards
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