Dumb Questions, Mauser Argentine 7.62x53
Hi all. Due to a passing in the family, and I, being the only one showing any interest in it -- I have acquired a Mauser Argentine 1891 which I know nothing about. So I have a lot of questions about it:
1) Can't seem to find any 7.62x53 ammo -- can I use 7.62x54?
2) I know 7.62 is 30 cal., but what does the 53 or 54 stand for? Is it the length of the casing?
3) I've heard you load these using stripper clips and I have found them for sale on websites. Is this just a quicker way to load them or do I have to have them?
4) Friends who know guns that have seen it say it's sporterized --
not the military stock, this stock has a cheek rest, and the forend stops midway down the barrel. They also say this may be rechambered when it was sporterized. Does this mean a new barrel was put on the receiver? And, how would I know what caliber that is?
I guess I answered my own question there -- take it to a gunsmith. Well, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, John
1) Can't seem to find any 7.62x53 ammo -- can I use 7.62x54?
2) I know 7.62 is 30 cal., but what does the 53 or 54 stand for? Is it the length of the casing?
3) I've heard you load these using stripper clips and I have found them for sale on websites. Is this just a quicker way to load them or do I have to have them?
4) Friends who know guns that have seen it say it's sporterized --
not the military stock, this stock has a cheek rest, and the forend stops midway down the barrel. They also say this may be rechambered when it was sporterized. Does this mean a new barrel was put on the receiver? And, how would I know what caliber that is?
I guess I answered my own question there -- take it to a gunsmith. Well, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, John
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If there is even the slightest chance that the barrel was replaced and the caliber changed you need to go to a gunsmith and have him slug the bore. DO NOT attempt to fire the rifle until the exact caliber has been determined. 0 -
Argentine Model 91 Mausers, never were big buck guns. They were imported and sold in large numbers during the late 50's, early 60's time frame. Since they were so inexpensive it is very common to find them sporterized for use as deer rifles.
The original ammo is 7.65 X 53 Mauser. Nothing else should be used! The on-line firm of "Graff & Son" carries this specific ammo.
Take it to a competent gunsmith for inspection, head spacing and test firing prior to use. Note! don't put a lot of money into it, as sportized 91 Mausers have no collectors demand/value, and minimal resale value.0 -
Argentine Mauser is 7.65x 53, and as said, no substitutes. 53 is length of case in mm.
If the caliber was changed (can be by rebarreling, or recutting chamber) a smith can determine this by making a chamber casting. Easy process, uses material called Cerro-Safe. Smith measures the casting with a micrometer, lets you know exactly what the dimensions are.
Check on line sellers for ammo- it is out there. About equal to .303 Enfield in performance.
Some info for you: http://www.shootingtimes.com/2011/02/10/longgun_reviews_classic_test_1891_argentine_carbine_021011/0 -
The 1891 is not as strong as later model Mauser rifles.
The bore of the 7.65x53 is bigger than standard 7.62 diameter.
The ammo "clip" is an integral part of the mechanism and is needed for proper operation. I don't know if this model can be single loaded w/o the clip or not since I've never owned one. Best left as is for decoration.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
The 1891 is not as strong as later model Mauser rifles.
The bore of the 7.65x53 is bigger than standard 7.62 diameter.
The ammo "clip" is an integral part of the mechanism and is needed for proper operation. I don't know if this model can be single loaded w/o the clip or not since I've never owned one. Best left as is for decoration.
The 1891 is a simple single stack, box magazine.. It can be loaded singly from the top, or by using a stripper clip for speed.. The stripper clip is not at all necessary for it's operation..0 -
You are correct, I was thinking about the Carcano. Sorry for the confusion. 0 -
7.62x54 is a completely different round with a large rim and larger diameter case body. Ammo in the original caliber is out there but it is called 7.65x53.
I have heard of 7.65x53 weapons being rechambered for 30-06 or in other words they cut the chamber on the military barrel larger.
Otherwise, if it was a different caliber, the barrel would probably have a smooth, sporter contour without a military sight on it. If it has a stepped contour and sight adjustable for thousands of meters, it's probably the original military barrel.
A lot of people trimmed the stock of their military rifle without rebarreling; all it takes is woodworking tools. So it's definitely very possible it's had the stock worked on but is still the original caliber.
Some guns require clips like the M1 and Carcano but not the Argentine.
Supposedly, the German-made export Mausers are some of the finest of the military Mausers.
It could be shot out. The barrel could be burned away at the very end of the cartridge or at the muzzle.0 -
stevens22cal,
Hello, and welcome to the forums here on Gunbroker.com
As has been said, the ONLY ammunition that should be used in the original configuration of your rifle , is the 7.65x53 Argentine. It is actually real close in performance of the 30-06.
There happens to be some great ammo being imported, that is made in Serbia for this. The manufacturer is PPU, and the name brand is Privi Partizan, if I am not mistaken. I have use some of their 308 Winchester, and 223 Remington ammunition, and am really impressed at the performance, for the price of the ammunition(about half of the regular factory plane jane stuff). It also uses boxer primed brass casings that have been neck, and shoulder annealed(a feature you would find on higher end brass...like Lapua, and Norma.
I have a close friend, who took a nice Whitetail buck with an 1891 Argentine, and that PPU ammo a couple years ago. What a blast!
Get yours checked out by a gunsmith, and get it running!
Best0 -
Thanks for your question and welcome to GB Forum. As you have been told, you have the caliber wrong on this fine rifle. Follow the suggestions and take it to a gunsmith and have it checked out before you fire it. The round it takes is roughly the same as the 30-06 and is one fine round! The rifle is of old world German craftsmanship and, if it checks out by the smith, is very capable of working in today's world of hunting and shooting! I have several and love to shoot them. Ammo is very available as you have found out. I would suggest that you read up on the rifle and then enjoy it[:)] 0 -
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the replies.
Hey, Mark I'll definately take it to a gunsmith.
Rufe-snow- thanks for the tip on Graff & Sons ammo.
11b6r- thanks for telling me the correct terminology on the chamber casting. I'll have the gunsmith do that.
Hangfire- thanks for the explaination on stripper clips -- I think I'll be looking for some on the internet.
SoreShoulder - I'll definately have the gunsmith check the burnt out barrel and appreciate the explaination of sporterize.
Tsr1965 - Thanks for the warm welcome. I've seen the ammo on different websites. Privi Partizan. Can't wait for deer season, sounds like if I hit him in the leg it should kill him. LOL.
Gary Wray - Do you have any tips on websites where I could read up on the gun?
Pics to come when I get it. Thanks again for all the posts. You guys are awesome. Glad I found this site.
Happy Hunting!
Sincerely, John0
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