Class 3 Question
Wanting info before I possible call BATFE in the morning.
Seller sent me pics of the tax stamp on the gun. No ID number on the tax stamp as I have seen before BUT the SN of the gun wrote in ink across the area where the number goes.
Also on the paperwork there is an area for the Tax Stamp number to be hand written in. Their copy says " $200 ".
Anyone seen this before?
Seller sent me pics of the tax stamp on the gun. No ID number on the tax stamp as I have seen before BUT the SN of the gun wrote in ink across the area where the number goes.
Also on the paperwork there is an area for the Tax Stamp number to be hand written in. Their copy says " $200 ".
Anyone seen this before?
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Is it legal to buy new manufactured full-automatic weapons, and what are the regulations surrounding the topic.
I know there are some regs surrounding May 1986 for full-auto, but I don't know the specifics.0 -
If you are a SOT holder ("class 3 ffl") and have a demo unit request letter from a LE agency, government, etc. then yeah you can call up whoever (colt, dsa, fn, etc) and order whatever is being requested. This is known as a "post dealer sample". Price-wise these are inexpensive, usually very close to the price on a semi version (if made).
There are "pre dealer samples" - registered before May '86, can be bought by SOT holders and *kept* after they give up their license/SOT status. These cost more than the semi versions (if made) but are far cheaper than the transferrables.
And then there are the transferrables that us plebians are allowed to pay outrageous prices for on the open market.0 -
Translation of above- which IS very correct-
Unless you are in the business of making or selling machine guns, you cannot have transferred to you a fully automatic firearm that was not already registered with the BATFE by May 1986.
That means that no, you cannot buy a newly made full auto. Which is why the price went thru the freakin' roof. Finite supply.0 -
You need to hold a Type 01 FFL as a dealer and then pay a Special Occupational Tax. The classification of the SOT varies (importer, manufacturer, dealer) but the SOT for a Dealer is Class 3, costs $500 per year and allows you to deal in National Firearms Act weapons, including machine guns. This is where the often used term Class 3 Dealer originates. Post May, 1986 machine guns are restricted and can only be sold to dealers for use as sales samples. In order to obtain such weapons a dealer must provide the BATF with a demonstration request letter from a law enforcement agency or other organization which the BATF deems appropriate. Dealer sales sample may only be retained by dealers for the period in which they maintain their SOT status. Once a dealer drops his SOT then any post May sales samples must be sold to an LE agency, another dealer (who has a demo letter), exported or surrendered to the BATF. Dealers are not allowed to retain post May samples, nor may they be inherited or otherwise transferred. 0 -
Answered correctly by the ones who knrw.
I gave up my SOT in 1988 when PD guns and others started to go to Mars. Still have 4 , but wish I'd kept the BAR, Madsen, 1928 Thompson, etc.
Turns out, better investments than IRA's.
Too bad we let the govt. rule the game.0 -
How does an estate executor handle pre '86'ers? Can they be awarded [to the designee?] the same as fully-registered title II machineguns? 0 -
Joe, a transferrable gun in an estate is handled the same way as any other Class III; the executor/personal representative must retain the gun until the fellas with the bulges in the cheap suits approve the application to transfer. A C&R class III can be transferred directly to the beneficiary anywhere in the US without going through a dealer (state & local law permitting).
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by givette
How does an estate executor handle pre '86'ers? Can they be awarded [to the designee?] the same as fully-registered title II machineguns?
Pre-86 MGs which are dealer sales samples may be retained after the dealer gives up his SOT and may be transferred to a lawful heir. They may also be sold to another dealer but cannot be transferred directly to a non licensee, which means that a private party cannot purchase it from the dealers estate.
Dealers typically use ATF From 3, which is for tax free transfers between SOTs. In the lower left hand corner there is a section APPROVED (with the following conditions). If the box is left blank then the firearm in question is transferable. If the box contains the wording dealer sales sample or limited to use as a sales sample then it is pre-86 and a "keeper". The bad one is the often seen Restricted registration-- Possession limited to continued compliance with Public Law 99-308 [V] When you see that notation then the MGs cannot be retained once SOT status has ended.0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
quote:Originally posted by givette
How does an estate executor handle pre '86'ers? Can they be awarded [to the designee?] the same as fully-registered title II machineguns?
Pre-86 MGs which are dealer sales samples may be retained after the dealer gives up his SOT and may be transferred to a lawful heir. They may also be sold to another dealer but cannot be transferred directly to a non licensee, which means that a private party cannot purchase it from the dealers estate.
Dealers typically use ATF From 3, which is for tax free transfers between SOTs. In the lower left hand corner there is a section APPROVED (with the following conditions). If the box is left blank then the firearm in question is transferable. If the box contains the wording dealer sales sample or limited to use as a sales sample then it is pre-86 and a "keeper". The bad one is the often seen Restricted registration-- Possession limited to continued compliance with Public Law 99-308 [V] When you see that notation then the MGs cannot be retained once SOT status has ended.
Ya know, for those of us with shallow pockets, it would be kinda neat if some scans of the various tax stamp papers could be added to the NFA faq sticky... obfuscate the identifying info, but never having seen one I'm kinda curious.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 11b6r
Unless you are in the business of making or selling machine guns, you cannot have transferred to you a fully automatic firearm that was not already registered with the BATFE by May 1986.
one addition. police and military can obviously posses post samples also.
quote:Originally posted by llama
Ya know, for those of us with shallow pockets, it would be kinda neat if some scans of the various tax stamp papers could be added to the NFA faq sticky... obfuscate the identifying info, but never having seen one I'm kinda curious.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nfa+tax+stamp0 -
quote:Originally posted by mark christian
You need to hold a Type 01 FFL as a dealer and then pay a Special Occupational Tax. The classification of the SOT varies (importer, manufacturer, dealer) but the SOT for a Dealer is Class 3, costs $500 per year and allows you to deal in National Firearms Act weapons, including machine guns. This is where the often used term Class 3 Dealer originates. Post May, 1986 machine guns are restricted and can only be sold to dealers for use as sales samples. In order to obtain such weapons a dealer must provide the BATF with a demonstration request letter from a law enforcement agency or other organization which the BATF deems appropriate. Dealer sales sample may only be retained by dealers for the period in which they maintain their SOT status. Once a dealer drops his SOT then any post May sales samples must be sold to an LE agency, another dealer (who has a demo letter), exported or surrendered to the BATF. Dealers are not allowed to retain post May samples, nor may they be inherited or otherwise transferred.
This part is slightly incorrect. When an SOT states their intention to not renew their SOT, they may (proving that the "rules" are BS) transfer ANY post-86 MGs that they currently have registered to their SOT to ANY current and valid 07 (manufacturer FFL) with a current and valid Class 2 (manufacturer's SOT)...no letter required. However, an 01 FFL (dealer) with a Class 3 SOT (dealer SOT) STILL needs a letter to receive even these guns...silly and capricious, but that's how they're doing it now.
Likewise, the rules have been tweaked to allow SOTs who are changing "business entity" (Sole Prop to LLC, LLC adding members or changing names, LLC to Sole Prop) to transfer (without letters) post 86 MGs to their new entity.
I went from a defunct LLC back to a Sole Prop in 2006 and had to get a letter with EVERY post-86 MG I had made, make/model/serial number from a sympathetic PD so I could keep what I had built.
I was unaware of being able to transfer post May samples to a Class 2 SOT with no letter. Your insight into the manufacturers end of the firearms business, which (like import/export) is often little understood, is always apprecaited.0
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