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Info about old W richards dbl brrl percussion 12ga

redice
Believe this is Damascus but have not looked at it super closely to tell for sure. Trying to find out where it was made and I have not found a good source of proof marks to match the ones on this Could anyone help me out? Here are a bunch of pics

https://picasaweb.google.com/110311394686979100055/Shotgun?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCMj1mtGsp9yy9QE&feat=directlink

Here are the proof marks on barrel

DSCN1718.jpg

And the W richards is only on the left lock

DSCN1683.jpg

Planning to sell this on gb in the near future but would like more info about it first, I have shot it yesterday in fact was the last time I shot it, it patterns nicely.
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Comments

10 comments

Date Votes
  • KJACK
    I'm not an expert, but I recall a discussion that "W Richards" branding was an attempt to hide behind the (very) high end Westley Richards name. Source is probably Belgium (ELG proof marks?).
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  • hrf
    The ELG in oval is the Liege, Belgium pre-1893 proofmark, and "W. Richards" is a typical Belgian ploy to suggest to uninformed buyers that it was made by Westley Richards, a quality British maker.
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  • redice
    quote:Originally posted by KJACK
    I'm not an expert, but I recall a discussion that "W Richards" branding was an attempt to hide behind the (very) high end Westley Richards name. Source is probably Belgium (ELG proof marks?).


    I know that it is most likely a knockoff, but I would like to know from where and better yet if I could get an approximate date.


    quote:The ELG in oval is the Liege, Belgium pre-1893 proofmark, and "W. Richards" is a typical Belgian ploy to suggest to uninformed buyers that it was made by Westley Richards, a quality British maker.

    Is there an ELG mark on this, I can't see it The only oval mark I can see looks like 14A1 but all these marks are really hard to make out, sec I will upload a larger pic so there easier to see fergot it auto downsizes them.

    I think the large pic is up but you have to go to the picasa site to see it correctly and to zoom in.

    Edit yup here it is

    DSCN1718.jpg
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  • Bert H.
    It is not of Belgian origin, nor does it have damascus barrels.
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  • hrf
    The Liege proofhouse added a crown to top of the oval in 1893 so made before then, but that's as specific as you'll be able to date it.
    Most likely made 1870s-80s period.
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  • hrf
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    It is not of Belgian origin, nor does it have damascus barrels.


    Bert, why do you say "not Belgian"??

    The E over LG in oval and the script EL are both common Liege proofmarks.
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  • redice
    quote:Originally posted by hrf
    quote:Originally posted by Bert H.
    It is not of Belgian origin, nor does it have damascus barrels.


    Bert, why do you say "not Belgian"??

    The E over LG in oval and the script EL are both common Liege proofmarks.


    The E over LG is that the top right oval mark on this? I just don't see it looks like 14A1 to me now between you and bert I am confused.

    If this is the pre 1893 gun made in Belgium is this a demascus barrel? Or just fake damascus really hard to get the pics to show it but the barrel looks demascus however where its scraped off on the bottom it does not so makes me lean toward fake demascus but I dunno really the only demascus or fake demascus gun I have ever really dealt with.

    and I am probably spelling that wrong like crazy...

    Edit added a couple more pics to better show what the barrel looks like. Here is the best one.

    dafasd.jpg
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  • hrf
    quote:Originally posted by redice
    The E over LG is that the top right oval mark on this? I just don't see it looks like 14A1 to me

    Yes, the one farthest right in photo, with the top (E) toward muzzle (the G partly obscured by rust)

    The intertwined script E and L farther left is the Liege preliminary proof
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  • redice
    quote:Originally posted by hrf
    quote:Originally posted by redice
    The E over LG is that the top right oval mark on this? I just don't see it looks like 14A1 to me

    Yes, the one farthest right in photo, with the top (E) toward muzzle (the G partly obscured by rust)

    The intertwined script E and L farther left is the Liege preliminary proof


    Ok cool, I still can't see it but I am sure that's just me heh Can you tell if the barrel is Damascus or is there an easy was to tell for sure?
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  • Hawk Carse
    There are mighty few percussion shotguns with fluid steel barrels.
    It is either Damascus or maybe an even cheaper welded up type, considering its fake trademark.

    To be sure would require you polish and etch a spot on the barrel.
    Not worth the trouble, in my opinion.
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