Ruger LCP 380 stopping power, cont'd.
I'm reopening this to answer some questions from the original poster:
quote:
I currently have a 9x18 PA-63 and a couple of Ruger revolvers (single six for plinking and a .357/.38Spl/9mm convertible for CAS fun. Would I be better off fitting the PA-63 or Blackhawk with laser sights?
For defense, ideally you want a DOUBLE ACTION revolver.
Yes, you "can" do good work with an old style cowboy gun, but generally those are slower to load, and the requirement to cock them before every shot can slow you down. If I were buying a new gun for defense, I wouldn't choose a single action cowboy style revolver, unless nothing else was available. I'd take a double action revolver, or even a decent auto over this.
If you don't already have a double-action revolver, as mentioned, a Smith and Wesson model 10 in .38 special (or other comparable K-frame .38 special revolver) can be had in good to excellent condition for well under $300 and these are really pretty tough to beat in terms of power/cost/ergonomics.
quote:To clarify, I have always lived in very, very safe neighborhoods. I think of shotguns as duck hunting weapons (which I don't get to do much of any more). To buy one just for defense seems like overkill to me.
There are two schools of though on home defense guns.
Some prefer shotguns, some prefer handguns.
Rather than rehash the entire argument of one vs the other (which have been done to death here), lets say my personal preference is for a double-action revolver.
I'll add that I can own any gun I want, and do, in fact own many number of others that also "could" work, including a .45 auto, etc. I like the revolver for its unbeatable combination of reliability, power, accuracy, and simplicity. When the adrenaline is going, and my hands are trembling, and I have tunnel vision, I don't want to worry about safeties, magazines, "tap-rack-bang" jam clearance drills, etc.
quote:I like the the idea of the LCP as I am considering getting a CC license and don't want to lug around a big gun.
No one likes to lug around a big gun.
I alluded to the problems with the LCP already. The gun is hard to grab onto, hard to rack the slide, EXTREMELY difficult to shoot accurately, and not that powerful. And some are unreliable. Other than these "minor" problems, its a great gun!
A bit more seriously, this is a good gun to have for concealed carry (only) *IF*:
a. You're already experienced with guns and have some skill, and
b. You can't/won't carry something heavier.
For home defense? NO. PLEASE GET SOMETHING ELSE.
quote:My vision is not BAD, I just find it a little difficult to line up sights on a gun, particularly at night, since I'm getting some early cataracts. That's why I was looking at the laser sighting.Well, since the sights on the Ruger LCP are nearly invisible anyway, I don't think not being able to see them is going to matter!
Yes. . .if your eyesight isn't great, get a laser.
quote:I DO find it a little hard to rack my PA-63 since I don't have a lot of arm/wrist strength (working on a computer all day doesn't exactly keep you physically fit and I'm not into exercise). I have to hold it down to rack it, rather than doing it at arm's length.I haven't tried them side by side, but I believe the LCP is harder to rack than your PA-63, though mercifully, the trigger is a lot better on the Ruger.
quote:Would recoil from a lightweight/short-barreled weapon make it HIGHLY inaccurate? If I ever had to fire at someone it would be at 20 feet or less and I would be aiming at the chest, not the head.
Its a combination of the bad sights, small grips, snappy recoil, and double action trigger that makes it hard to shoot well. Yes its "possible" to shoot it well, if you practice a lot and are an accomplished shot, but I think you're going to have a much easier time with any number of other guns, including simple double-action snubnose revolvers.
This is simply not a gun that is easy to shoot accurately. Its more of a "point at bad guy 5 feet away, pull trigger, repeat until gun is empty" kind of gun. Some use the term "belly gun" for a gun like this.
quote:
I currently have a 9x18 PA-63 and a couple of Ruger revolvers (single six for plinking and a .357/.38Spl/9mm convertible for CAS fun. Would I be better off fitting the PA-63 or Blackhawk with laser sights?
For defense, ideally you want a DOUBLE ACTION revolver.
Yes, you "can" do good work with an old style cowboy gun, but generally those are slower to load, and the requirement to cock them before every shot can slow you down. If I were buying a new gun for defense, I wouldn't choose a single action cowboy style revolver, unless nothing else was available. I'd take a double action revolver, or even a decent auto over this.
If you don't already have a double-action revolver, as mentioned, a Smith and Wesson model 10 in .38 special (or other comparable K-frame .38 special revolver) can be had in good to excellent condition for well under $300 and these are really pretty tough to beat in terms of power/cost/ergonomics.
quote:To clarify, I have always lived in very, very safe neighborhoods. I think of shotguns as duck hunting weapons (which I don't get to do much of any more). To buy one just for defense seems like overkill to me.
There are two schools of though on home defense guns.
Some prefer shotguns, some prefer handguns.
Rather than rehash the entire argument of one vs the other (which have been done to death here), lets say my personal preference is for a double-action revolver.
I'll add that I can own any gun I want, and do, in fact own many number of others that also "could" work, including a .45 auto, etc. I like the revolver for its unbeatable combination of reliability, power, accuracy, and simplicity. When the adrenaline is going, and my hands are trembling, and I have tunnel vision, I don't want to worry about safeties, magazines, "tap-rack-bang" jam clearance drills, etc.
quote:I like the the idea of the LCP as I am considering getting a CC license and don't want to lug around a big gun.
No one likes to lug around a big gun.
I alluded to the problems with the LCP already. The gun is hard to grab onto, hard to rack the slide, EXTREMELY difficult to shoot accurately, and not that powerful. And some are unreliable. Other than these "minor" problems, its a great gun!
A bit more seriously, this is a good gun to have for concealed carry (only) *IF*:
a. You're already experienced with guns and have some skill, and
b. You can't/won't carry something heavier.
For home defense? NO. PLEASE GET SOMETHING ELSE.
quote:My vision is not BAD, I just find it a little difficult to line up sights on a gun, particularly at night, since I'm getting some early cataracts. That's why I was looking at the laser sighting.Well, since the sights on the Ruger LCP are nearly invisible anyway, I don't think not being able to see them is going to matter!
Yes. . .if your eyesight isn't great, get a laser.
quote:I DO find it a little hard to rack my PA-63 since I don't have a lot of arm/wrist strength (working on a computer all day doesn't exactly keep you physically fit and I'm not into exercise). I have to hold it down to rack it, rather than doing it at arm's length.I haven't tried them side by side, but I believe the LCP is harder to rack than your PA-63, though mercifully, the trigger is a lot better on the Ruger.
quote:Would recoil from a lightweight/short-barreled weapon make it HIGHLY inaccurate? If I ever had to fire at someone it would be at 20 feet or less and I would be aiming at the chest, not the head.
Its a combination of the bad sights, small grips, snappy recoil, and double action trigger that makes it hard to shoot well. Yes its "possible" to shoot it well, if you practice a lot and are an accomplished shot, but I think you're going to have a much easier time with any number of other guns, including simple double-action snubnose revolvers.
This is simply not a gun that is easy to shoot accurately. Its more of a "point at bad guy 5 feet away, pull trigger, repeat until gun is empty" kind of gun. Some use the term "belly gun" for a gun like this.
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Sounds like the most logical solution here is a DA revolver but the question was specific to the LCP. With that said, I would suggest the LCP if and only with the e correct ammo, I highly recommend the use of Hornady Critical Defense loads. Both weapon and ammo are the millenium answer to the old ".380 is not a stopper".
Another consideration might be a Judge or Governor, DA,shotshell,.45 acp or colt,compact enough in a home defense situation.0 -
I carry an LCP as my ccw gun. It is ok for that role. For the house I use an old S&W K38 (adjustable sighted version of a model 10) that I picked up at a gun show for $225. It has a easy trigger and mild recoil. You can add a Crimson Trace lasergrip and will have one heck of a defense gun. Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain non +p loads are mild but still will easily penetrate 12''. Mine has a 6'' barrel but they come in a 4'' that would be a little handier for you. While better than nothing the LCP is not a great home defense gun when you put it up against other options---I think my LCP has a sharper recoil than the K frame .38. 0 -
Sold my LCP and replaced it with a 9MM. At 11 Oz. these are great little carry pieces and fairly accurate too. Very very little difference in size to the LCP.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=2777223590 -
The original poster expressed some concern about hand strength, and was asking for a gun specifically for home defense.
While personally, I really like the idea of a subcompact polymer 9mm luger pistol for concealed carry, in the ones like this I've tried (KelTec PF-9 and Kahr) recoil is pretty brisk.
Good for carry. . .not so good for home defense, in my opinion.
Edit, responding to below
quote:Nmyers: It's hard to argue with the logic of nononsense's posting on the type gun best suited for defense.
For those of us who missed it, what did he say?
If he said something along the lines of the best gun for defense is a. the biggest one that b. you're competent at shooting that. c. actually goes "bang" every time, and d. you can actually access when necessary, then I don't think anyone can disagree with that!
The "problem" is that it takes a lot of shooting to become competent, and it can take a bit of experimentation with different types of guns to figure out which one(s) you like.0 -
It's hard to argue with the logic of nononsense's posting on the type gun best suited for defense.
I have a laser sight but only use it to give the cat exercise. With the possible exception of SWAT team members (who are highly trained, practice often, & use a laser under specific circumstances), I can't see the value of a laser sight. I find that trying to put a laser on a target gives me "brain freeze", as the use of one is counter to the way I have been trained to shoot in a combat situation.
Many SWAT teams have switched from lasers to high intensity flashlights, which give you a target, blind the perp, & light up the scene simultaneously.
Neal0 -
After reading about an actual shootout between a group of SAA armed bad guys and a few 1911 armed good guys, I became soured on the idea of single action revolvers for self defense. The two good guys cleaned the clocks of the five or more bad guys.
For a home defense handgun it should be either a double action revolver or semi auto. Several 357 revolvers have eight shots.
Personally, I have and like a laser mounted Chief because it can be aimed from any position without having to get behind the sights,
I don't like the idea of a loaded, cocked and locked single action auto as a house pistol.0 -
quote:Originally posted by v35
After reading about an actual shootout between a group of SAA armed bad guys and a few 1911 armed good guys, I became soured on the idea of single action revolvers for self defense. The two good guys cleaned the clocks of the five or more bad guys.
When did this gunfight take place, 1915?
Even by the 1920s, double-action guns had made single action revolvers effectively obsolete for combat. All by itself the fact that these "bad guys" were armed with old single action guns means they didn't know what they were doing, didn't expect to encounter actual armed resistance, couldn't afford modern guns, or some combination of all of the above. That's even more true if this fight happened any time since the Eisenhower administration!
Being devil's advocate here, ultimately skill and tactics of the operator are *FAR* more important than which weapons are involved. Someone GOOD with a crowbar will beat the tar out of someone clueless with a rapier. Someone GOOD with a Colt Single action army will still clean the clock of someone else inexperienced with guns, "even" if they've got a 1911 or double-action revolver.
Again, if you're skilled and practiced, its still possible to do good work with a single-action revolver. Any of the good CAS competitors can put out their .45LC rounds faster and more accurately than most shooters can shoot 1911s, let alone double-action revolvers. Some of these guys can probably RELOAD their single action guns faster under pressure than many can reload DA guns.
The biggest real-world limiting factor in SA revolver shooting is capacity. The guns only hold 5 rounds safely, (6 if you've got a modern transfer-bar gun), and reloading is slow. Still, if you consider that each of the.45LC rounds is as good (if not better) than a .45ACP, 6 of them is still quite a bit of lead. If you can't "fix your problem" with 6 .45LC rounds, having another one or two probably wouldn't make the difference.
quote:
For a home defense handgun it should be either a double action revolver or semi auto. Several 357 revolvers have eight shots.
Personally, I have and like a laser mounted Chief because it can be aimed from any position without having to get behind the sights,
I don't like the idea of a loaded, cocked and locked single action auto as a house pistol.
I agree. 8 shot .357s really do make a wheelgun comparable to a 1911 in terms of firepower, but these guns are pretty bulky, for what that's worth.
Personally, I'm also not a fan of "cocked and locked" single action type autos, but I'll concede that ultimately this is a question of training and personal preference. Plenty of "serious operators" (Cops, SWAT guys, special forces, etc) still choose 1911s over other guns, because they like the good trigger pull, power, ergonomics, etc. So if you like this style of gun, and especially if you're practiced with it, go for it.
Bottom line is, its really much more about the shooter than what gun they have. Whatever gear you have, if its moderately powered or more, and you're practiced enough so that you can reliably place your shots where you like under pressure, you'll do fine. If you can't do that, you need to modify your equipment, and/or get more practice until you can.0
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