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Sporterized 03 Springfiled C&R eligible

onemanmob
Hello, Everyone, I sold the rifle in the link below last night, and now my buyer is trying to use a C&R license. He tried to tell me that because the rifle was altered from it's original configuration 50 years ago it should qualify, but from what I can tell I believe it has to be in original military configuration to qualify for C&R status, so this must go to a normal FFL holder for transfer. Thanks for the help.

http://www.GunBroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=365333221
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Comments

12 comments

Date Votes
  • nmyers
    You are correct; he is mistaken.

    "Military" is no longer used by ATF, as the reg applies equally to commercial firearms. It must be in original configuration to be considered a C&R; it doesn't matter when it was altered. Tell him to refer to the ATF website.

    Neal

    EDIT: Where a firearms issue is not cut & dried, ATF encourages you to submit photos & documentation, & they will issue a decision letter.
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  • Spider7115
    Agreed. It has been significantly modified from its original configuration and is no longer considered "collectible".
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  • Texraid
    Not a cut and dried issue. What about '03s that were custom made sporters? Springfield sold barreled actions at one time and those rifles made by Seymour Griffin, Fred Adolph, among others are in their original configuration.
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  • gruntled
    What about pre 1898 Krags that have been altered?
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  • llama
    quote:Originally posted by gruntled
    What about pre 1898 Krags that have been altered?


    Then they are antiques and not firearms
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  • MIKE WISKEY
    "Not a cut and dried issue. What about '03s that were custom made sporters? Springfield sold barreled actions at one time and those rifles made by Seymour Griffin, Fred Adolph, among others are in their original configuration."................this is true, however the rifle in question was mgf. much after the gunsmiths of the day could buy actions from Springfield. this is a ww2 remington and the seller should receive a 01 ffl before shipping.
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  • sandwarrior
    I'm under the understanding "significantly altered" means a change of barrel or cartridge. What happened with the stock or any other accessory isn't a concern to the ATF.

    Concerning pre 1898 Krags. If the barrel was changed to accommodate a new cartridge then that qualifies as a modern firearm. That is if it wasn't an arsenal re-work.

    One way to head this issue off is to specify with each auction whether or not it's C&R eligible. I get irritated with those that come along after the fact and state their C&R is good when I didn't say it was. If they want to use it, they need to ask first.


    Added:

    I stand corrected. Apparently, the stock cannot be changed out. But, the original can be used, or a replacement of the same design can be changed out.

    I find this ridiculous as it does not change the function of the weapon. If you had an historic rifle, that 20 years ago somebody took off the wood stock and put a plastic one on, can't be purchased as C&R. But, put an original of the same design and now it's C&R again.

    It still annoys me when people wait until the last minute to spring the C&R thing on you.
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  • countryfarmer
    There is no way to determine when the rifle was altered and even if it was the ATF would still have to rule it on a case by case basis.
    Bottom line, NO it is not C&R eligible.
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  • martinicadet
    The C & R definition clearly states must be in original configuration, shorting the stock doesn't fit that definition
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  • Don McManus
    quote:Originally posted by martinicadet
    The C & R definition clearly states must be in original configuration, shorting the stock doesn't fit that definition


    Neither does replacing both the front and rear sights, for that matter.
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by martinicadet
    The C & R definition clearly states must be in original configuration, shorting the stock doesn't fit that definition

    Replacing it does, and this one has been replaced by a sporter stock. The rifle in question is NOT C&R eligible.
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  • Spider7115
    quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
    I'm under the understanding "significantly altered" means a change of barrel or cartridge. What happened with the stock or any other accessory isn't a concern to the ATF.

    Concerning pre 1898 Krags. If the barrel was changed to accommodate a new cartridge then that qualifies as a modern firearm. That is if it wasn't an arsenal re-work.

    One way to head this issue off is to specify with each auction whether or not it's C&R eligible. I get irritated with those that come along after the fact and state their C&R is good when I didn't say it was. If they want to use it, they need to ask first.


    Added:

    I stand corrected. Apparently, the stock cannot be changed out. But, the original can be used, or a replacement of the same design can be changed out.

    I find this ridiculous as it does not change the function of the weapon. If you had an historic rifle, that 20 years ago somebody took off the wood stock and put a plastic one on, can't be purchased as C&R. But, put an original of the same design and now it's C&R again.

    It still annoys me when people wait until the last minute to spring the C&R thing on you.

    C&R status isn't about functionality; it's about collectability. A sporterized 1903 Springfield is no longer representative of an historical event or deemed a collector's item.
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