1st Time Handloader
I am about to get ready to work up my first batch of handloads. I have spent enough money on ammunition, in order to find what my rifle likes, to purchase an entry level precision rifle. I have tried almost every "boat-tailed" hunting bullet in the 150-168 grain ballpark with my results (at 100yds) ranging from 1.5-2.25 MOA. I finally tried some 180 grain Hornady SST (Boat-Tailed Ballistic Tip) and got similar results. A friend gave me a box on Remington Core-Lokt 180gr Pointed Soft Point and my groups shrank to 0.386-0.668 MOA. Obviously, I was more than happy to get this kind a group with a cheap load, even if I had already spent a lot of $$$$ chacing my tail with other ammo. I have not been able to shoot any other Flat Based 180 grain rounds through it yet. My question is this. I have roughly 80-100 once fired brass cases (Remington, Hornady, Federal), plenty of CCI primers, IMR 4350 powder to get us started. But I am really scratching my head over bullet selection. I was going to grab a 50 round box of Nosler Partition & Sierra Pro-Hunter (since this are both a flat based bullet like the Core-Lokt) both in 180 grain until the "reloading guru" at my local gun shop told me I would never get the Nosler Partitions to group worth a half of two bababooeys. Does anyone have any suggestions for a great/accurate flat based hunting bullet in 180 grain. Sorry for being so long winded about this. The specs on my rifle are as follows:
Rifle: Remington 700 ADL (bought new in mid 90's)
Chamber: .30-06 Springfield
Barrel: 24" with 1:10 Twist; typical sporter contour; bore and crown still in like new condition
Stock: Factory Synthetic (that IS fully free floated back to recoil lug)
Tirgger: Factory (tuned by gunsmith to 3lbs pull with overtravel and sear adjusted)
Rifle: Remington 700 ADL (bought new in mid 90's)
Chamber: .30-06 Springfield
Barrel: 24" with 1:10 Twist; typical sporter contour; bore and crown still in like new condition
Stock: Factory Synthetic (that IS fully free floated back to recoil lug)
Tirgger: Factory (tuned by gunsmith to 3lbs pull with overtravel and sear adjusted)
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My only question is what will you be hunting that the Remington Core-Lokt is insufficient to take? Are there better hunting bullets available? Yes, but dead is dead and the Remingtons have always produced this result for me. I reload the 165gr Core-Lokt's for my .308 and 30-06.
Edit; I have had very good results with Nosler Partitions in several calibers and never had horrible results with them in any load.0 -
quote:Originally posted by carbine100
My only question is what will you be hunting that the Remington Core-Lokt is insufficient to take? Are there better hunting bullets available? Yes, but dead is dead and the Remingtons have always produced this result for me. I reload the 165gr Core-Lokt's for my .308 and 30-06.
I am shooting white-tails and wild hogs. I have no complaints about the Core-Lokts effectiveness, but I am working up some handloads and no one any where close to me sells Core-Lokt bullets and I am a little old fashioned about buying stuff site unseen.0 -
Here is what I do usually. For rifles buy 200 rounds of new brass. Winchester Super Speed was good brass. I like Norma too. Inspect the cases and use the Lyman flash hole uniformer/deburrer tool. Lightly champher the inside case mouth. If they fit the rifle, load a good midrange load with a cast bullet. Fire form. Full length size if they didn't fit.
Neck size case. Trim to uniform length (Forster case Trimmer, champher inside and out, scrape primer pocket.
I use a Lyman 310 tool to hand seat all my primers, has excellent feel.
Usually I run a powder measure to throw charges. Learn to be consistent in operation - never let the hopper go below half. I also make dippers for large grain powder. Check with good scales often.
On a dummy round, smoke the bullet with kitchen match. Seat bullet until there are no rifling scratches in the soot, then seat a little deeper.
When seating production ammo I seat the bullet about 1/2 way lower the ram and spin case about 180, then finish seating. Takes out half of the error.
I mostly use CCI primers. Ball powders meter better and have a lower flame temperature to help prolong barrel life. I have my best luck with full cases or even compressed powder charges.
Keep good notes. Keep the ammo in boxes properly labeled. Partial boxes of bullet at gun shows can be an excellent bargain for testing/load development.
Make sure your action and mounting screws are tight. Glass beading the action is usually good. Some Loctite on screws is useful. JB Bore Paste is good with new barrels. I like Shooter's Choice for cleaning. Not all guns like fully free floating barrels, some times some damping pressure at the tip of the forearm is the ticket.
The 49th Ed. Lyman list a 180 Jacketed SBT loaded max 56.0 gr of IMR 4350 as an accurate load.0 -
I can see your quest for the best most accurate loads, if you were a long range target shooter. But white tails and hogs at under 200 yds. Your wasting your money and time for nothing, IMHO. Any load that you can put together that will duplicate that 2.25 MOA factory load. Will suffice for white tails and hogs, using a 30-06.
Way things are going down the tubes, for gun folks nowadays. I would have spent my money, on stocking up on components. That might be hard to come by in the future.0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
I can see your quest for the best most accurate loads, if you were a long range target shooter. But white tails and hogs at under 200 yds. Your wasting your money and time for nothing, IMHO. Any load that you can put together that will duplicate that 2.25 MOA factory load. Will suffice for white tails and hogs, using a 30-06.
Way things are going down the tubes, for gun folks nowadays. I would have spent my money, on stocking up on components. That might be hard to come by in the future.
I understand your point about using a 2 MOA rifle/ammo for deer/hogs at typical ranges (50-250). I haven't stocked up on components because I have just recently found someone that will teach me to reload and has most of the equipment need to do so. As far as the hunting & bullet selection goes, I regularly hunt fields where my distance is only limited by my ability and/or rifle and ammo. I had a rifle set up that I was comfortable with shooting deer/hog sized out to 600 yards. Long story short, sold rifle to pay off some bills. I would like to be able to practice at and hunt at these distances until I can afford another "precision" rifle that I can start back to shooting long range out to and past 600 yards. I wish my rifle liked boat tailed bullets and I realize the flat based bullets may hold me back from pushing past 400-500 and I'm fine with that as long as I have given it a try. My old 7mm Mag loved factory Federal Accubond and Hornady Interbond but my 06 doesn't.0 -
You have a rifle proven to shoot .386-.668 MOA as stated in the OP. How is that not suitable to shoot deer/hogs at any reasonable range(and I don't consider 600 yards to be reasonable unless you're a VERY experienced shooter)?
I've shot 180 grain Corelokts at long range from a 300 Win mag but there are many other bullets that hold velocity better. They are a midrange hunting bullet and do very well within those parameters.0 -
I did some research into .308" hunting bullets some years back. One of the bullets (about 20) tested was the core-lokt both pointed and round nose. The bullets may still be available in bulk from Grafs or Midway. Another bullet that had similar performance to the PCL was the Speer Mag-Tip. If you don't want to mail order, your local shop may have the Speers. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by olrebel37
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
I can see your quest for the best most accurate loads, if you were a long range target shooter. But white tails and hogs at under 200 yds. Your wasting your money and time for nothing, IMHO. Any load that you can put together that will duplicate that 2.25 MOA factory load. Will suffice for white tails and hogs, using a 30-06.
Way things are going down the tubes, for gun folks nowadays. I would have spent my money, on stocking up on components. That might be hard to come by in the future.
I understand your point about using a 2 MOA rifle/ammo for deer/hogs at typical ranges (50-250). I haven't stocked up on components because I have just recently found someone that will teach me to reload and has most of the equipment need to do so. As far as the hunting & bullet selection goes, I regularly hunt fields where my distance is only limited by my ability and/or rifle and ammo. I had a rifle set up that I was comfortable with shooting deer/hog sized out to 600 yards. Long story short, sold rifle to pay off some bills. I would like to be able to practice at and hunt at these distances until I can afford another "precision" rifle that I can start back to shooting long range out to and past 600 yards. I wish my rifle liked boat tailed bullets and I realize the flat based bullets may hold me back from pushing past 400-500 and I'm fine with that as long as I have given it a try. My old 7mm Mag loved factory Federal Accubond and Hornady Interbond but my 06 doesn't.
Therre lies half of your problem. I have been shooting/hunting, and reloading for long distance for over 20 years. Yes, it can be done with a rifle, like a 700 ADL, but not without modification. I know this from experience. You fail to mention, what stock you have, and if it is pillar bedded, or not, too. If it is a Remington, flexible stock, all bets are off. Also, your sight? What are you using for bases, rings, and scope?
Also a lot depends on your reloading mentor's ability, and the equipment he has. A lot in accuracy, has to do with case preparation, too. If you skip any of the steps like a good cleaning, inside, and out, seperating cases by weight, trimming, deburring the neck, and primer flash hole, etc, you might as well, skip them all, because you are just fooling yourself. The name of long distance accuracy, is consistancy, and everything has to be the same.
Now, to answer your original question...you might want to try seating your bullet about 0.020"-0.050" off the lands of your rifle, and see how that works for you. I like for hunting, the Barnes TSX, or TTSX bullets. I would step down a weight or two, as it is not needed with these. A TSX, 30 cal., 150 grain, will penetrate as good or better than your 180 grain Core Lokt. Simple reason, is, that they retain more of their weight. In fact, for the 308 Winchester, 30-06, and 300 WinMag, I use exclusively the 130 grain TTSX(Tipped TSX). I follow the manufacturer's suggestion, and seat them around 0.050" off the lands. There is something to be said for a ballistically trim, 30 cal., 130grain bullet, traveling at 3300-3400 FPS(in the 30-06. Around 3600, in the 300 Win Mag)...that is 270...eat your heart out!
Best
EDIT 1
quote:TSR-I've tried the lightweight and hypersonic loads in a 300WinMag, and the results are somewhat amazing.
I put a 125gr TNT over 72.5 gr of H414, and it vaporized about 75 yards from my barrel.
Well, ther in lies the problem...an explosive lite skinned bullet. The ultra light Barnes TSX, and TTSX bullets, that I speak of, will not do that, as they have no jacket, or core.
Best0 -
This really oughta be in the Reloading Room, but I'll give a thought or 2 on your position.
My favorite Elk load for the 30-06 Springfield is to put a Nosler 220gr. Partition above 49.5 gr. of IMR 4350, sitting in a once-fired and prepped Federal Gold Medal case, using a Remington 9 1/2 Magnum Rifle primer.
This load produces 2" groups at 400 yards through both my Remington 742 and Tikka rifles, and will knock down any animal on the American Continent.
Your quest for accuracy starts with case prep, goes through case prep, and finishes with the most consistent case prep you can muster.
Being an experienced shooter helps some, as well.
If you are looking to kill hogs and Bambis with greater regularity; you don't need a 1" group at 700 yards to accomplish that feat.
You need a consistent bullet, fired from a solidly-accurized rifle, from a rock-solid rest, in front of an incredibly talented Marksman.
TSR-I've tried the lightweight and hypersonic loads in a 300WinMag, and the results are somewhat amazing.
I put a 125gr TNT over 72.5 gr of H414, and it vaporized about 75 yards from my barrel.
I tried a smaller charge weight and was rewarded with a 225 yard group under 1/2 an inch.
Granted, it was almost half a foot above my aiming point.0 -
It never fails that anytime the subject of "long range" hunting comes up, someone is going chime in on either the ethics end, the sportsmanship part, or the it can't/shouldn't be done "period" portion....irregardless of the what the original question may have been. The question asked was simply to get recommendations on a the most suitable flat based bullet (and any steps in the reloading process) that will help me get as close to 600 yards (the distance that I feel comfortable shooting out to as long as I am not restricted by my equipment. If you don't have the skill set or the equipment to allow you to shoot accurately at AND especially hunt ethically out to a give distance, then get out and practice or just don't even try it. I've had some seasoned hunter try to tell me that you can't kill a deer with an '06 past 200 yards.
quote:Originally posted by Mobuck
You have a rifle proven to shoot .386-.668 MOA as stated in the OP. How is that not suitable to shoot deer/hogs at any reasonable range(and I don't consider 600 yards to be reasonable unless you're a VERY experienced shooter)?
I've shot 180 grain Corelokts at long range from a 300 Win mag but there are many other bullets that hold velocity better. They are a midrange hunting bullet and do very well within those parameters.
...I never said that a bullet/rifle that is shooting .386 to .668 MOA can't kill a deer....but with the Core-Lokt being a flat based round (that has certain limitations by design) that probably isn't held to as exacting spec's as some other bullet makers.
To everyone else that offered advice on bullet selection and reloading steps....thank you very much for your help.0 -
I didn't say anything about ethics or sportsmanship nor did I say it can't be done. I qualified my comment with the "VERY experienced shooter" phrase.
Flat based hunting bullets will still deliver the goods at 500-600 yards but you'll need to do a good job of doping the wind and carry a good range finder.
BTW Nosler Partitions are generally more accurate now than they were 50 years ago.0
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