Military GI 45 Help (Pictures)
A few years ago doing the yak yak with a guy at a yard sale, found out he had been an FFL in the past. Well one thing lead to another and I wound up doing some trading with him for two 1911's, one a beautiful Remington Rand, the other a Colt. The Colt has British proofs. The Colt has BNP with a small crown on the frame and slide. The stamping on the barrel is 7 tons per and a square and .900. What is really different is the sights. The front and rear sight are a lot higher than standard GI sights. A couple of years ago I saw another 1911 just like this one up for sale on Gun Broker; same sights, British proofs, etc. I emailed the seller but never got a reply for info on these guns. Can anyone tell me about these guns? Did the British order these guns with these sights and why? What are the value of these guns? I would be grateful for any info. What did I trade? I would have to pull my bills of sale but I believe is was a Mossberg 410 pump, a Ruger Single Six 22 and something else. I believe he said he bought these from a vet. I have also enclosed a few shots of the Remington Rand.
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The Colt Looks to be a Lend least gun with English Proofs Birmingham .
This would have to be sent back to the us after WW II.The sights needless to say are NOT factory Colt sights.It does have the correct
Colt inspector marks. The R.R. also has correct inspector marks. The sights on the colt are interesting To say the least.. They look like Factory made but not colt. Just like today with many different sights available but back in the 1940's and 1950's most aftermarket sights were ONE OFF by a machinist .The R.R is very nice condition nothing special but not messed with either [^] The colt is anyone's guess.
as to value and who or when The sights were replaced. I would say
you did very well on the trade as Just one of the pistols would be worth Twice of your trade and the second one would be a freebee[:0][:D]0 -
Since anyone's guess is good, my guess is that either gun would sell in the $1,000-1,500 range. You did OK.
Neal
EDIT: Installing USGI sights on the Colt is a moot point. They cannot be found, anywhere, at any price. And, the front sight is single use, so you can't take one off of another gun. Leave it alone.0 -
Nice pistols, you were wearing a mask during the trade. That big hollow in the front sight looks like it was made for an ivory core that has been lost. The sight set up looks like an early low light combat prototype. 0 -
You would be way better off, IMHO if you could replace the existing sights,with original GI type. It's not clear from your photos though, if the slide has been altered for the aftermarket sights.
From my reference both of the serial numbers are correct, and the slides match. Colt was made in 43 and the Remington in 44. Because of the British post war commercial proofs. The Colt would likely have been worth less, even if it's sights hadn't been screwed with.0 -
A Mossberg 410, A Ruger Single Six and something else? WOW, you should feel very bad. As I see it, you owe that guy a few more guns. [;)] 0 -
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
You would be way better off, IMHO if you could replace the existing sights,with original GI type. It's not clear from your photos though, if the slide has been altered for the aftermarket sights.
From my reference both of the serial numbers are correct, and the slides match. Colt was made in 43 and the Remington in 44. Because of the British post war commercial proofs. The Colt would likely have been worth less, even if it's sights hadn't been screwed with.
That is the absolute last thing I would do. These sights as mentioned look like early "low-light, combat" prototypes. If the gun was modified in England for the war, there is a good chance this may have been a gun under scrutiny for use by the Commando's. You know there are more of them floating around because you've seen them. So, who's to say they weren't some military test bed as to what the British may have been considering to use.
Besides, if you just threw on some GI sights, it wouldn't be original as you found it. I'd say keep looking for answers. You may have something really unique.0 -
Very nice. The Remington Rands have a special place in my heart, as they were manufactured in my home town of Syracuse, NY. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
You would be way better off, IMHO if you could replace the existing sights,with original GI type. It's not clear from your photos though, if the slide has been altered for the aftermarket sights.
From my reference both of the serial numbers are correct, and the slides match. Colt was made in 43 and the Remington in 44. Because of the British post war commercial proofs. The Colt would likely have been worth less, even if it's sights hadn't been screwed with.
That is the absolute last thing I would do. These sights as mentioned look like early "low-light, combat" prototypes. If the gun was modified in England for the war, there is a good chance this may have been a gun under scrutiny for use by the Commando's. You know there are more of them floating around because you've seen them. So, who's to say they weren't some military test bed as to what the British may have been considering to use.
Besides, if you just threw on some GI sights, it wouldn't be original as you found it. I'd say keep looking for answers. You may have something really unique.
I agree with NOT touching the sights. Besides the chance of them being some sort of "prototype low-light combat sight" there is also the (slight) chance the pistol could have been fitted with a different barrel and some type of a suppressor during the war and the sights were designed for use with that.
There were all sorts of weird experimental and one-off "covert projects" stuff being done by the British (and everyone else) during WWII. A lot of it was never talked or written about after the war. With any wartime records of it having been destroyed, and those who worked on it, having taken the information about it with them to their graves, the only way we can learn about some of the stuff now is by piecing together "clues" left from others' information (usually second, or third-hand accounts) and bits and pieces of technology left behind.
There is a slight chance that pistol could be one such "clue" -- don't mess with it thinking you'll somehow "improve" the value.0 -
It looks like the oddball front sight is set into a pocket milled in the slide. If so, restoration to GI would be expensive.
I have often thought that the best use for guns that show a lot of wear or differ from specification is to make up stories about them, and it looks like you are getting a lot of help.0
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