WSSM's---Opinions
Now that the WSSM's have been out for a while, what is the considered opinion?? I'm mostly concerned about accuracy. Being a Bbl. burner is not an issue for me. My thought at this moment is to use a nosler partition, or equal, in the .224, or .243 for Oregon Blacktail.
THX
THX
0
-
While the short wide cartridges have a slight advantage in accuracy, a gunsmith friend of mine from near Grants Pass didn't like rebarreling to them because of the lateral movement involved in the cartridge going from the magazine to the chamber. He found the 6mm or 243 much more reliable in feeding. Otherwise, the 95 gr Partition should be great for those deer. 0 -
Do they still make and sell those? Stock up on all the brass that you think you will ever need and maybe some extra.
.224 in my opinion is a varmint size; .244 is getting into deer size.0 -
The 25 WSSM, is all the experience I have in that field. I will tell you, that in a short light rifle, like the Winchester Ultimate Shadow, it is something to behold.
Don't let anyone fool you, with the right bullet, the .224 caliber is a deer cartridge. Lot of folks say "it will not push brush, like the 30 caliber's". The only ones they are fooling are themselves, as the 30 calibers will not push brush and still be on target either. When I say, with the right bullet, I mean the Nosler Partition 60 grainer, the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or the Barnes TSX, or TTSX bullet. They will work perfect for your Blacktail. I happen to use the 62 grain Barnes TSX in my 1:8 Twist AR-15, for large Eastern Whitetail. On a broadside shot, it will do both shoulder's out to 300 yards.
Now back to the 25 WSSM. Another fellow forum member, Sandwarrior has a Model 70 Coyote, that is a great shooter, too. I did sell my 25 WSSM, but before I did, had my other WSSM, of sorts in hand. I re-barreled a Browning Stainless A-Bolt that was a 25 WSSM, to 6.5 Heaton. It has the performance of roughly the 260 Remington, or 6.5x55 Swede. It slays deer like a lightening bolt, and most of the friends in camp are gaming, trying to see who gets to use it next.
Like has been told, make sure you get all of your brass you want. I had enough, that I gave some of it away to a friend, for their 25 WSSM.
I'm sure Sandwarrior will chime in.
Best0 -
I have a 25 wssm in a model 70 featherweight and it is an excellent whitetail rifle. I use the 110 accubonds, they do their job well. My daughter has a 243 wssm in a Browning Micro medallion. She shoots 95 grain ballistic tips. She has not had the opportunity to harvest a deer with it yet, she has taken several deer with a rem 700 243 win with 100 grain power points, but I am certain it will also do a good job. Both rifles shoot 1.25 or better from a solid bench with a good rest. 0 -
Take Charlie's advice, to heart. Western is in business to make money. If there isn't enough interest in a specific cartridge, for it to be commercially viable. They will drop it like a hot potato. I have seen this happen many times over the years,
The first thing you have to ask yourself, are rifle(s) being currently produced for a specific cartridge. If not it's the writing on the wall.
I've seen a bunch of folks stuck over the years. With guns that ammo was no longer made for. They were in a pickle, couldn't get ammo for them. And nobody wanted to take them off their hands, because ammo was unavailable.0 -
Be really careful on ammo/brass availability. 0 -
Hawkshaw,
Before this topic gets out of hand like they usually do with the naysayers, here is the right information.
First and foremost:
quote:Do they still make and sell those? Stock up on all the brass that you think you will ever need and maybe some extra.
.224 in my opinion is a varmint size; .244 is getting into deer size.
Yes, not only are these cartridges being manufactured as loaded ammunition but brass is available in quantities of 50 up through 1,000 piece lots. The .25 WSSM brass is still a little less available due to Olympic Arms buying the entire lots of brass from a couple of years ago in order to make their 'new' cartridge, the .300 OSSM (Olympic Super Short Magnum). This really is nothing more than the .308 Win. for the nitpickers in the audience. Which brings up the next point.
These cartridges are all equivalent to each individual caliber in a .308 Winchester case. In essence they have made a shorter, fatter .22-243 Middlested, .243 Winchester and the .25 Souper. So for the folks who think that there might not be enough energy from these cartridges to kill a deer, you need to rethink. Which leads to the next point.
All three cartridges are being factory loaded with bullets heavy enough and properly designed to kill deer. This includes the .223 WSSM. This ammunition is currently available from several sources online at least. Yes, even the .25 WSSM is available as loaded ammo. No, you might not find any at the local hardware store in Podunk, USA but it can be purchased easily.
As to accuracy, any of the three cartridges can be accurate given the rifle, scope and shooter ability. You still can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear so all of the variables will influence the accuracy of the final assembly.
I have killed deer with all three cartridges. It's no big deal really. Select the right bullet and put it in the right spot, the deer will die. Simple. I've used everything from the Nosler Partitions to Hornady AMAX for bullets and these will make wonderfully accurate loads with one of several powders currently on the market.
Enjoy the process of making your decision!
Best.0 -
Modern manufacturing being what it is, The criteria for a factory to make or discontinue a cartridge has more to do with it basic measurements than other aspects. Today there are five basic cartridge head diameters, the common cartridges to these five groups are .223 Rem, .30-06, .300 Mag, and .300 Ultra, and the rimmed cases of .30-30 class. If a case is of one of these families, it can be made by a manufacturer with only slight adjustments to the length, shoulder and neck. Or if it really lags and no one makes it, the reloader can form the cases either by fireforming or case forming from an existing popular case. Since the 243 WSSM has a diameter similar to the Ultra family, I would not be hesitant about purchasing one if case availability was my only objection. The Ultra family has several cartridges in both Winchester and Remington design so a complete discontinuance is not soon likely. 0 -
Hawkshaw,
My opinion of them hasn't changed. After wringing out the .25 to as much satisfaction as I could, I found that the "short, fat" concept in cartridges has reached it's limit. I also found this a little more so in the .223 WSSM and to a lesser extent than the .223, the .243 WSSM. As nononsense, noted these cartridges have approximated a .308 based cartridge in the same calibers. I still have to say I'm pretty impressed. What I found reloading for the .25 was that I could exceed factory 25-06 velocities using .257 Rob equivalent loads. I did also find I could exceed those loads with a 25-06 being handloaded. But, it was pushed pretty hard.
The cool thing about them with that though, is they can be run through an -15 sized platform in an AR, instead of the heavier -10 platform that was made for .308 size cases. The uppers are specific to the WSSM's, but so is most any other cartridge on a -15 platform.
As TSR1965 noted he has moved up to the 6.5 with the cases. I've seen these now in .270, 7mm, .308, 8mm, and .338. The larger the diameter of the neck the more effective they become. All but the .270 were used in competition. And with pretty good effect.
I don't think you would go wrong with the purchase of a rifle in a WSSM case. You would have trouble getting readily available ammunition. But, we've seen that now twice in the last four years with .308, 7.62x39 and even .223. Learn to reload, stock up on components, and you won't have that problem.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Hawkshaw
Now that the WSSM's have been out for a while, what is the considered opinion?? I'm mostly concerned about accuracy. Being a Bbl. burner is not an issue for me. My thought at this moment is to use a nosler partition, or equal, in the .224, or .243 for Oregon Blacktail.
I have no experience with these, and I think you've already gotten better opinions than I could ever give.
But since my perspective may a bit different, I'll just tell you what my though process is. Anytime a new round comes out (and in this case, these aren't really that new; I think they've been around for a good 10 years already) I always ask the same question:
-What can this round do for me performance-wise that I can't get from something time-proven, that's more readily available, easier to resell later (if necessary) and probably less expensive? How badly do I need (you can substitute "want") the improvement(s) in question?
In this case, I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to look at the numbers and see that these stubby short magnums effectively duplicate the exterior ballistics of other excellent time-honored rounds (including .25-06 that people use on Elk and Moose). So of course these are good for varmints, deer, etc. Was that even in question?
The only question is, do the advantages of shorter gun action and potential improvement in accuracy outweigh the listed disadvantages for you?
For me, I'm simply not shooting rifle competitively, trying to wring every last bit of accuracy possible out of this type of platform, or trying to repurpose an AR-15 for medium-centerfire type performance. I don't really care about getting the "latest and greatest", and I've already got plenty of rifles in more "boring" calibers that are fine for deer or anything else I'd care to shoot. So these super-short magnums hold no special appeal to me and that's why I don't have one. If these things appeal to you, then go for it; I don't think you'll be disappointed.
On caliber, for a deer-only gun, I think I'd prefer a .243. But plenty of people have great success with .223s on deer, including blacktail deer.
That's mostly just a factor of using the right load (cartridge and bullet), skill of the hunter, and jurisdictional legality (some places don't allows .22s on deer). If you really like the idea of a .223, and its otherwise a good "fit" for you, then go for it.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
10 comments