Firearm age/legal ??
I've read where if a firearm was manufactured prior to 1899, then it doesn't have the restrictions of modern firearms. I thought I recalled that there was also something about the cartridge chambering. So if a rifle, such as a Winchester 1894 made in 1898 and chambered for 30-30 is sold, or a handgun made prior to 1899 and chambered for 45 Colt, is sold, do these sorts of guns need to go through FFL, or city restrictions, even though the guns LOOK and SHOOT just like newer guns that are regulated?
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There is a difference between the Federal laws definition of antiques, specially pertaining to function cartridge handguns. And that of the commie states like California and New York. I would most definitely wouldn't want to go before a judge in any of those places, with a functional SAA. And tell him it was a legal antique as far as the feds were concerned. And he has no jurisdiction over it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ray B
I've read where if a firearm was manufactured prior to 1899, then it doesn't have the restrictions of modern firearms. I thought I recalled that there was also something about the cartridge chambering. So if a rifle, such as a Winchester 1894 made in 1898 and chambered for 30-30 is sold, or a handgun made prior to 1899 and chambered for 45 Colt, is sold, do these sorts of guns need to go through FFL, or city restrictions, even though the guns LOOK and SHOOT just like newer guns that are regulated?
Fed law - if that exact firearm was made before Jan 1 1899 then it is a non-gun no matter the caliber. NFA laws may still apply. Or, if it is a modern repo chambered for ammo not commercially available (ie 32 rimfire, the various pinfire calibers, etc) it still is a non-gun.
On a state, county, or city level who knows...0 -
Your risk is that state, county, and municipal laws can be (and frequently are) more restrictive than federal laws. What that means is that while you may avoid FEDERAL prosecution, all bets are off with the lower echelon courts. If you want to be safe, you need to research all of the non-federal laws for your jurisdiction. [:)] 0 -
So what your saying is I can open carry my 1895 S&W because, legally its non-gun. 0 -
Where did the question of open carry come from? The question concerned the age or when a gun was made. If a gun was made before Jan 1, 1899, by FEDERAL LAW it is considered an antique and is not regulated by Federal law. If the gun was made at least fifty years ago from todays date, it is considered a curio or relic in most cases and does not have to be shipped to a Class 1 FFL license holder. Some guns, a Thompson Sub Machine Gun or a short barrel shotgun comes to mind are regulated no matter when they were made. That's Federal law. State and local laws are another whole bale of wax. By many local and state laws prohibit open carry of a Colt 1873 Single Action Army, no matter when it was made, 1874 or 1974. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by 0oAKo47o0
So what your saying is I can open carry my 1895 S&W because, legally its non-gun.
I know for a fact that you can carry it in AZ. On the other hand,in NY nanny Bloomburg will throw you in jail. With sugar bugger bubba, as your cellmate,0 -
quote:Originally posted by Ned Fall
Where did the question of open carry come from? The question concerned the age or when a gun was made. If a gun was made before Jan 1, 1899, by FEDERAL LAW it is considered an antique and is not regulated by Federal law. If the gun was made at least fifty years ago from todays date, it is considered a curio or relic in most cases and does not have to be shipped to a Class 1 FFL license holder. Some guns, a Thompson Sub Machine Gun or a short barrel shotgun comes to mind are regulated no matter when they were made. That's Federal law. State and local laws are another whole bale of wax. By many local and state laws prohibit open carry of a Colt 1873 Single Action Army, no matter when it was made, 1874 or 1974.
I got to thinking about it, had to ask.0 -
For everyone's benefit;
Per U.S. Code Title 18, Part I, Chapter 44, Section ?921, paragraph (16), an "Antique" firearm is defined as follows;
(16) The term "antique" firearm" means-
(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica-
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term "antique firearm" shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.
The specific cartridge that a pre-1899 manufactured firearm is chambered for is a moot issue as far as the Feds are concerned. In your example, a 30-30 Winchester Model 1894 manufactured on December 31st, 1898 is an "antique", and it can be shipped from the seller directly to the buyer across state lines with no FFL involvement. As has been stated by several people, individual state law may be more restrictive. I do not believe that counties or municipalities can trump their own state law.0 -
quote:Originally posted by 0oAKo47o0
So what your saying is I can open carry my 1895 S&W because, legally its non-gun.
Maybe. . .maybe not.
It may not legally be a firearm, but its still a "weapon" and open carry of ANY weapon may be illegal in your particular jurisdiction.
If you can't legally walk down the street carrying a samurai sword where you are, you can't expect to carry a 19th century revolver either.
And even if technically this sort of carry isn't illegal, unless people are doing this on a regular basis you still might expect to be detained, harassed, or even arrested if someone sees you.
As an example, in MA the handgun permit is called a "license to carry" and so far as I know, there is actually no legal requirement to carry concealed. Despite this, I know of a specific incident in MA where a LTC carrier was carrying concealed under his jacket. For some reason his jacket opened up, a cop saw the gun under it, and arrested him. The result was he lost his LTC. . .again, even though there no actual legal requirement in the first place that he carry concealed!
Bottom line is the letter of the law is one thing, and actual on the ground policy can sometimes be totally different. Its smart to be aware of both things and behave accordingly.0 -
If the receiver was made before January 1 1899 DOM, it's an antique. Even if subsequently altered; so for instance, a Finn M39 Mosin rebuilt in 1940 on an 1897 receiver is an antique.
Black powder muzzleloaders are antique even if new.
There ARE some guns made after 1899 classified as antique due to lack of ammo- the British fielded some sort of odd bottlenecked shotgun with 3 primers (think it was a Greener and 18 gauge?) but in general this is the exception.
Again state laws very.0
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