AR 15 Lube
Just wondering what you guys use for lube. I use anti seize on the fire control group and Royal Purple 5W30 on everything else.
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With all the gunk that is blown back into the innards, because of the gas impingement system. The type of lube you use would be dependent on a number of factors.
#1, How much shooting do you actually do. If it's only a couple of hundred rounds once a month, I wouldn't sweat it.
#2, Ammo, some is way more dirty than others. Power residue wise. Using somebodies reloads with the wrong powder, and blasting away with a slidefire will magnify the internal fouling substantially.
#3, Also if you live in the desert or other locality where there is a lot of small dust/debris floating around. To adhere to the oily/greasy surfaces of the internal parts.
The above is why our GI's way back during the Viet Nam days, used Dri Slide to lube their AR's internally. When the alcohol evaporated it just left a film of dry molly on the internal parts. The film of molly would resist attracting powder residue and jungle debris.0 -
On the entire gun, I used CLP for years. Now I use Slip200EWL. AR 15's need lubrication to run the action, as too much friction will (obviously) slow down the bcg speed and limit its movement with the results being repeated jams if not properly lubed. I have seen video and read reports of AR 15's running a rediculous 30,000+ rounds between cleanings if lubed up properly.
As a caveat, I have also seen too much used on an M-4 and it somehow gummed up the bolt inside the carrier where the gas rings ride, keeping it from moving properly. (It should not be so lubed up that it is filling all the spots and dripping.)
Personally I don't use motor oil for guns because I hate the smell and prefer other oils for this job; but many, many folks have been using lighter weight synthetic motor oil on their guns for years without an issue, so the oil you are using should not be a concern function-wise.0 -
My buddy turned me onto the Royal Purple. It might be me but I don't smell that oil funk with it. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
On the entire gun, I used CLP for years. Now I use Slip200EWL. AR 15's need lubrication to run the action, as too much friction will (obviously) slow down the bcg speed and limit its movement with the results being repeated jams if not properly lubed. I have seen video and read reports of AR 15's running a rediculous 30,000+ rounds between cleanings if lubed up properly.
Ditto.
CLP is OK, its been the military standard issue lube/cleaner for years. Its probably not the "best" product out there, but it will work OK on AR-15s and I still like it for most of my OTHER guns.
Pat Rogers (well-respected instructor for EAG tactical) recommends Slip 2000, and has done a torture test running 8000 rounds through his AR-15 using nothing but Slip-2000 applied literally until the gun is dripping wet.
https://www.slip2000.com/blog/pat-rogers-8000-round-letter/
He makes the point that most people traditionally try to run their AR-15 "dry" with sparing lubrication. He thinks that's contrary to how most machines operate and from experience, recommends running guns sopping with with lube (the lube apparently carries away dirt).
See here for a very good summary
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showpost.php?s=1cb8a04cabe30c7c477a267a87971f4c&p=20157463&postcount=1a
Money quote:
quote:In the 90's I worked for another government agency that had a large budget. We had a fair number of guns and a lot of ammunition, so on the down days I had the opportunity to play and run some informal tests. While the exact results have been lost to the ages, some salient points remain embedded in my brain housing group. A totally dry gun will run approximately 100-200rds before seeing problems. A clean but properly lubed gun in good condition should go from 500 minimum to 1000 maximum.
More lube is not necessarily bad. I submerged the bolt and bolt carrier assembly into a bucket of oil, shook it off and placed it into the carbine. It ran like a clock though I only had enough time to fire off 4 mags worth of M855 through it.
I have used every type of lube imaginable, going from WD-40 (especially good when you have a dirty gun), 3 in 1 oil, suntan lotion, butter to Vagisil- don't laugh, it works. I may not want to use any of them for the long haul, but for a quick fix it beats having a non functioning gun.
I'm not even going to imagine the scenario where the only lube you have available is Vagisil, but I'll take Pat's word for it!0 -
Breakfree (or also known as CLP). 0 -
CLP is no longer being used by the military due to liver toxicity. I believe that they are now using TW25B.
I prefer a light coating with Militec-1 grease. Brownell's sells a kit of special cleaning tools designed specifically for the M16.
"The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide" by Walt Kuleck has a good section on cleaning & lubrication.
Neal0 -
I see where SigSauer includes a sample size of TW25B with their AR platforms- for whatever that's worth. 0 -
BreakFree.
Keep the bolt carrier group wet with it, but put only a little down in the fire control group.
Even when a rifle gets literally filthy from firing, liberally wetting the BCG with this stuff will keep it running fine.
EDIT
quote:Originally posted by Ray B
I see where SigSauer includes a sample size of TW25B with their AR platforms- for whatever that's worth.
They also include a small tube of this stuff with their handguns, but per their armorer's school SIG doesn't officially recommend a specific lubricant.
EDIT#2
quote:Originally posted by burpfire
the less oil on a gun, the better. guns today need very little lubrication to run properly.Due to a few factors that's not good policy when it comes to the AR/M16 design.
The bolt carrier group of these rifles requires lubrication to continue running. If only a minimal amount of lube is applied to this area the rifle will initially feed/fire/eject okay, but as it heats up, that small amount of lube dries out and fouling begins to develop it will start malfunctioning on you.
Those who see this design as sensitive and prone to malfunctioning due to fouling aren't maintaining it correctly. If kept properly lubricated this rifle will continue to function problem free even when filthy.0 -
quote:Originally posted by RobOz
Just wondering what you guys use for lube. I use anti seize on the fire control group and Royal Purple 5W30 on everything else.
antiseize? NO! you do realize antiseize IS NOT a lubricant? it contains massive amounts of metal. if anything, it will wear out your parts faster. it is very abrasive. it will also attract everything to it. flush it out and just put a few drops of oil on it. the less oil on a gun, the better. guns today need very little lubrication to run properly.0 -
quote:Originally posted by burpfire
quote:Originally posted by RobOz
Just wondering what you guys use for lube. I use anti seize on the fire control group and Royal Purple 5W30 on everything else.
antiseize? NO! you do realize antiseize IS NOT a lubricant? it contains massive amounts of metal. if anything, it will wear out your parts faster. it is very abrasive. it will also attract everything to it. flush it out and just put a few drops of oil on it. the less oil on a gun, the better. guns today need very little lubrication to run properly.
Been using it for thousands of rounds. Also anti seize is used as a lube.
http://www.jprifles.com/1.4.8.2_fc.php0 -
quote:Originally posted by burpfire
quote:Originally posted by RobOz
Just wondering what you guys use for lube. I use anti seize on the fire control group and Royal Purple 5W30 on everything else.
antiseize? NO! you do realize antiseize IS NOT a lubricant? it contains massive amounts of metal. if anything, it will wear out your parts faster. it is very abrasive. it will also attract everything to it. flush it out and just put a few drops of oil on it. the less oil on a gun, the better. guns today need very little lubrication to run properly.
Anti-seize IS A LUBRICATE. Many 'grease" lubes contain metals.
http://www.meyerplastics.com/adhesives_seal_tape/anti-seize_comp_sht.htm0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
CLP is no longer being used by the military due to liver toxicity. I believe that they are now using TW25B.
Thanks for the update. I guess from now on I'm going to have to stop drinking the CLP and pouring it on my head while cleaning my guns. . . [;)]
OK, seriously, the military did one big study on this subject using RATS about ten years ago. In a nutshell, they shaved rats, and put CLP on their skin in the same place 3x a week. They then did a whole bunch of studies on the rats, including looking at the skin areas under the microscope, blood labwork, and even autopsied the rats looking for organ damage. "Shockingly" they found that putting CLP on rats skin again and again caused first dermatitis, then ulceration and reactive changes.
So yes, its a skin irritant.
Based on lab chemistry results lowering serum alkaline phosphatase levels in the rats, the authors speculated that MAYBE this stuff could affect the liver and bone and suggested more testing. . .BUT when they autopsied these same rats with the skin injury, they saw no actual evidence of liver damage, and they also felt that maybe the alk phophatase changes were (in short) because the rats with the skin irritation weren't eating as much. (Presumably because being tortured by having skin ulcers created on their backs made them less hungry!).
Its full of medicalese, but if you care to, you can read the entire study results here: http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA416474
Bottom line, I haven't seen any good evidence that Breakfree-CLP causes liver or other internal organ damage.
In practice, the amount of CLP you're going to come into contact with when doing routine gun maintenance should be minimal. If you wear gloves when you clean your guns (which is what the authors of this study suggested) and exercise minimal care exposure should be negligible, and you shouldn't see any problems.
If you do get any on your skin, just wash it off with soapy water, and you should be fine. Remember, it took multiple prolonged exposures in the same place to cause the issue in rats.
Also relevant here, the reason this one was tested was because its been in wide use for so long in the military, and someone asked the question of how irritating it really is to skin. The military has the means and resources to do this sort of testing, so they did. Empirically CLP has been in wide use, not just in the military, but also in the sporting/civilian community for several decades. If the stuff REALLY caused significant skin or other injury, probably someone would have noticed by now.
Nobody has done comparison-testing between CLP-Breakfree and OTHER gun lubes/cleaners. The fact is, most of them also contain a variety of organic and/or petroleum based chemicals, and they'd probably have exactly the same effect. Some might even be worse. . .who knows?
Again, just use a teensy bit of care/common sense with any of these, and you'll be fine.0 -
The US Army DOES still use CLP.
NSN - 9150-01-079-6124
MIL-PRF-63460E
CLP S-758
4 fl oz
I have several bottles of it in my shop and it is still listed in all the appropriate TMs.0 -
Speaking of nasty lubes. Hornady One Shot aerosol is some nasty bad stuff. I have switched to the trigger pump spray and it's not quite as bad, just make sure you got some ventilation.
One thing is for certain, there is more than one way to skin a cat or lube a gun.0
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