Collecting guns
I have owned many guns in the past,most of which have been stolen. I have recently started to buy guns again. I know it is a bad time because of the panic going on but I want to build up my collection again. I am buying mostly older model guns in good shape, a couple are suppose to be unfired. I know a lot of the old guns I had seem to be selling for a lot more than I paid for them. I have thought about buying a few collector grade items but can not afford to spend up to $10,000 or more for a single gun. When you look for a collectable gun, what do you look for? Are there some out there that will only get go up in price with the years? What type of guns are considered collectable? I know the Winchesters have a lot of value. I have a pre 64 mod 70 light weight in .270 which I am sure is worth more than what I paid for it. It has less than a hundred rounds thru it. Guess what I am asking is what would you recommend for some one jsut starting out in the collector business? Brands, models, etc.
Thanks,
Gene
Thanks,
Gene
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Quality never goes out of style. Other than perhaps for serial number 1 I wouldn't pay extra. Oddball cartridges don't interest me but I don't mind wildcats that I can easily make shells. Other than a 22 LR anything less powerful that a 38 Special would be off my list just in case I needed to use it as a gun. 0 -
Collecting is in the eye of the beholder. IMO I would take a Marlin lever over a Winchester even though the big "W" usually commands a premium over the Marlin.
The main difference is the value of the collection. You could have 10 very collectable Marlins for the price of 1 highly collectable Winchester.
If you are looking to make money down the road there is a better market for lesser priced guns since more people can afford them.
I wouldn't consider myself a collector perse but I do like to buy and trade to increase my stable. I have alot more fun running 25 $1,000 guns thru my hands than 1 $25,000 gun. JMO and good luck!
T670 -
Before you even think about buying another gun, why don't you purchase a safe? That way you may get to keep some of them. For the price of one or two nice guns, you won't have to fear 95% of the B&E boys. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
Before you even think about buying another gun, why don't you purchase a safe? That way you may get to keep some of them. For the price of one or two nice guns, you won't have to fear 95% of the B&E boys.
Don't worry, after I lost 13 guns back in the early 80's I bought a safe. It isn't one of the best but weighs over 600lbs with a key and combination lock.
Thanks0 -
I'm afraid that I cannot identify with your objectives. Most of the folks I know with valuable guns started by buying guns that they liked, with little thought of future appreciation. They found some area that was interesting, & became "experts" in their field by buying books, studying variations, & talking with like-minded collectors.
Folks who just want to go into the "collecting business" end up with altered, mutilated, & refinished guns. Never buy an expensive gun that you aren't an expert on, or on which you have not consulted with an expert.
Case in point: 2 years ago someone posted photos of a beautiful, near mint Colt 1911 on this forum that he had just bought for several thousand $. We were able to prove to him that it had been expertly refinished, &, fortunately, he was able to get a price adjustment. There are probably thousands of similar guns out there in the safes of "investors", & eventually they will be identified as something less than represented.
If I wanted to make money, I'd have hired a professional investment advisor. Firearms are my hobby, not my "business".
Neal
"The only difference between men & boys is the cost of their toys."0 -
The lack of collecting knowledge is why I started this thread. I am just trying to get some ideas of why people choose the guns they do. I have always bought guns I liked rather than looking at what they would be worth in the future. I have seen on the auction side that most of the guns I had are now worth 5-6x what I paid for them. I have never owned a gun I did not like at the time or shoot whenever I wanted. I know a lot of people collect guns they will never take out of the vault except to maybe clean and show off. I would not mind finding a couple of old guns that are strictly for putting up and passing on to my kids. Who knows maybe one of those guns could be sold in 10 years for enough to start them in college. I have recently bought a Ruger 77/22 NIB that was made the first week or two of production. I also just bought an unfired Red label 20 ga in the old blued receiver. Will these become worth a fortune someday, I doubt it. The 77/22 may or may not be fired since I have 3 other 22's. The red label I bought will most likely be fired because that is one of the guns I lost and I loved that gun. It killed many a dove and quail.
Thanks to all for any and all info,
Gene0 -
Gene248,
There are a few things to keep in mind.
1. There are only two very collectable names in gun collecting. They are Winchester and Colt. There are other's like S&W's older models, as well as some newer ones, Browning, and Remington.
2. Originality is what most collectors are looking for. Specifically originality, that is in the highest possible condition they can find. Kind of like catching a 10 pound large mouth, and putting it in the live well, until you catch the 12 pounder.
3. If you are looking for increased value/investment dollar, then stay away from commemorative's. Most of them are not worth any more than their contemporary counterparts. Yes, they look flashy, but do not usually increase in value, and in some instances, loose.
Seems like you have a good handle on the Winchester's, as most anything in the bolt, or lever guns, that is Pre-64, has a following. Colt's revolvers, are another area, that has great attraction.
You have also been given some great advice, in purchasing a safe. Get one that has a good fire rating, and one that has locking bolts on all four or the door edges. With insurance rates today, it is almost impossible to insure a good collection against fire or theft. Some folks have collections, in the value range of $100,000.00's of dollars, if not more. It would cost over $5k, or more for an extra insurance rider, and most home owner's insurance only covers the first $1000.00 when it comes to firearms. You can get a good safe now days, for under a grand.
Hope this gives you a start.
Best
EDIT 1
I will also tell you, that the majority of my collection in my safes and vault, are shooters. I have only a handful that I have never fired.
I do have several old Winchester's, and Colt's, that are well over 100 years old, that I do shoot. One is a Winchester 1892, that belonged to my grandfather. It is in the same condition that I inherited it in, but is far from original. It is in splendid working condition, and was made in 1895. It is far from being a collector, but is one of the most valuable pieces of my collection, to me(there is a lot of sentimental value too). Reason being, is that every year, there is an informal center fire rifle shoot, at the local gun club. Where everyone that is shooting a specific event kicks in a dollar or two, and winner takes 50% of the pot...the rest goes toward operating fees for the club. That little rifle in 38-40, has won more, bowling pin, and 6" steel plate shoots from the off hand position, than I care to remember...not all by me, as everyone else also wants to try their hand with that "Old Winchester".
Best0 -
Thanks TSR that is exactly the type of info I was looking for. Any other ideas are always welcome
Gene0 -
Now that the safe issue is off my mind I'll tell you about my evolution. I started buying Nazi Mausers and Parabellums (Lugers) in the late sixties. WWII had only been over about 20 years or so and every pawnshop and gunshop had them, take your pick, and cheap. The laws weren't so important in Alabama so being 16 was no big deal when buying an old Mauser or even a Luger. They were relatively cheap and pop telling me about the war stimulated my love of history. "History you can hold in your hand".
There were few books at that time, but just by owning and seeing them, I was able to compare and make observations. I knew one day, they would be very valuable.
In the eighties, I lived on the West Coast courtesy of Uncle Sam and started grabbing Japanese weapons since they were cheap and plentiful there. In the early 90's, I punched out and moved back to the Gulf Coast.
Knowing I probably wouldn't make the centennial of WWII, I started divesting myself of the WWII German weapons at great profit and concentrating on WWI weapons and Japanese. That again paid off. The Japanese weapons are now appoximately where the German weapons were in the 70's. My first Nambu was purchased at Eddies gunshop in Mountain View, California for $25. In two years, the WWI centennial begins and the weapons of all parties are sure to rise.
The rule of thumb is collect what you like and the rest will follow. If I was just starting out now, I would grab every Tsarist M91 I could lay hands on and then every Soviet weapon I could aquire for the potential of rise in value and the historic epoch from which they came. It's a niche that has not been realized by the majority of people.[:I]0 -
tsr1965 and nmyers have provided excellent advice. I would add that once you have selected the makers you want to collect (Colt, Winchester, and S&W would be my choices) you should acquire reference materials and study them. While Colt, Winchester, S&W and others are fine collectibles you need to know what enhances value and what detracts. You should join the collector forums as there are very knowledgeable folks there (as here) who are happy to provide assistance. And get a good camera and learn how to use it; folks on the forums can help but can help best when they can see what it is you're asking about. I learned a lot from making mistakes and very much suggest you research before you buy, not after. The right guns have been good investments over the years and may continue to be. I'm a little concerned though with all the negative publicity that the market for firearm collectibles may be getting smaller rather than bigger. Most of the serious collectors I know are in their 60s or older and I'm not sure younger folks are going to be as interested. You may make money investing in firearms but as an earlier responder said, buy what you like and will enjoy owning. If they go up in value, great. 0 -
In my opinion Trying to make the right investment in Collector firearms has a lot in Common to collector Cars. There are two types the largest type is those guns that were popular 30 or so years ago . and then the classic guns . A pre 1964 Winchester in shooting condition 80% or less sell for much less then they did 20 years ago But the same guns in 95% or better to NIB are much higher then 20 years ago Because the advanced collector is looking to UP GRADE same thing with a Pre series 70 Colt if normal condition it will not sell well because a new buyer will just buy a 1911 CLONE . but give them a chance to buy one NIB and they will bring big $$$. Watch the auto auctions on TV the 30 year old cars bring good money the 60+ year old cars sell for less then It took to restore them . Cowboy guns sell well today but I suspect 30 years down the road is a big [?][?][?]. Also you need to look at the big picture .are you willing to move if the state you live in Follows N.Y. MARYLAND , COLORADO or CONN I have been shooting and collecting for 50 years .BUT. I would [?] What the future holds[:(][V] 0 -
One thing no one else has mentioned her, that should rank with the physical safety of any firearm you buy: a good firearms library. There is an old saying that if you are a serious collector, you should have one gun book for every firearm you own.
It is an unfortunate truism out there, that for every two or three legitimate dealers who have a high degree of personal integrity, there is at least on of the "take the money and run" boys.
When you consider that some of the most famous and prominant antique gun dealers admit to having been "took" in a gun deal, what makes you think you are the exception? A good, well read gun library will help prevent that.
Lastly, if you are getting back into gun collecting for the sheer joy of it, Hurray and good for you. However, if you are not a gun professional and think your collection will fund your retirement, fuggedaboud it. It just don't work that way. A few of us have gotten once in a lifetime deals in our collecting efforts, but that is exactly that a once in a lifetime deal!0
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