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Gunsmith question

sandwarrior
How hard is it to install an ambidextrous safty on a 1911a1 which does not have one
What tools are required

SMILE...MAKE EM WONDER WHAT YOUR UP TO
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Comments

7 comments

Date Votes
  • sandwarrior
    can an barrel on an 12ga Mossberg 195K shotgun be change. I have pits in the middle of the barrel and would like to change it to an fully rifle barrel.

    Thanks for the help
    spec.4
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  • nononsense
    sandwarrior,

    This is the bolt face you're referring to?

    Model70bolt-faceCRPF.jpg

    If yes, then the question is not which is more expensive but what is safest.

    If that little 'lug' below the extractor sheared off, I would suggest replacing that bolt immediately. I would also call FNH to let them know and to see what they will do for you as a customer with a damaged bolt. This will be interesting to say the least since they will want to know and should be ready to absorb the liability from Winchester.

    Even if I though it might be O.K. to use a Sako-style extractor, the geometry of ejection would be altered and might not be acceptable. Besides, I'm not one who thinks that carving a big slot in a bolt is good idea in the first place. I've seen quite a few of these get blown off at times...

    E-mail me if you need more.

    Best.
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  • sandwarrior
    nononsense,

    That is indeed the the bolt of which I am speaking.

    The lug was broken by physical force of extraction not explosive force of recoil of a cartridge firing.

    I had sent the rifle in to Browning (the only time I ever had issues with USPS, BTW {St. Louis}) and they quoted me the $155 to replace the bolt, which I expected. They then quoted me another $150 to headspace it. I would have thought that headspacing would not have had to have been that far out to require 2 1/2 hours of shop time?

    It was determined by me, and verified by them, that the small boss which was machined into to hold the extractor, only held enough strength to do that. Not that it is an inherently weak design, just not up to the abuse you could give a claw. Strength of the remaining material in the bolt isn't really a question. The slight loss of coverage around the rim is minimal. Because the head of the case isn't supported/covered on the whole underneath of the bolt. There is some added safety from the boss and ejector in that they are something more to hold the rear of the case in case it were to rupture, but not near as much support as you would get from a push round feed bolt. Winchester took care of that by giving the gas a path to go through in the event of a case head rupture. That system, IMO, being far safer than "rings of steel".

    The question of the geometry for the exit of the case was the secondary issue of mine as well. It doesn't do any good to install an extractor that launches the cases straight up into the scope mounts.

    The secondary question is as important as the first. I was looking at someones prices and thought I could save money and still have the bolt that works(ed) great in this rifle. Just didn't know if it would be worthwhile.

    Added:

    While not a strength issue, it may certainly be a safety issue. The boss and extractor may help deflect escaping gasses in case of a case failure. That is an unknown, to me, as far as the design goes.
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  • nononsense
    sandwarrior,

    I guess I can answer the shop cost by explaining that in order to headspace a new bolt, the barrel has to be removed from the action, be put into a lathe and indicated in. The tenon has to be machined to set the shoulder back or the chamber deepened to make the headspace correct. Either way it sounds like they have standardized shop charges for each type of process just like automotive mechanics. That way they just look up the process and tell you the cost. You can argue but they simply point to the book and tell you that's what it costs.

    Now, as to the damage and the discussion of the addition of the Sako-style extractor.

    This photograph illustrates the depth of the cut and the location of the cut for a Sako-style extractor. Please note both the depth and placement of the cut. It is on the top portion of the lug and angled so that it actually undercuts the lug. Note that this will be the deciding factor for the geometry of the extraction/ejection part of the cycle. Combine this slot with the missing portion of your extractor support and I would suggest another train of thought.

    sakoextractormilledslot.jpg

    Have Winchester, Browning or FNH sell you the bolt then take it to a good gunsmith to have the headspace adjusted. If they refuse, call Dave Kiff at PTG and see if he has the new version of your bolt in process yet. Buy one of those and have it fitted.

    Best.
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  • sandwarrior
    nononsense,

    Thanks for the reply. I had wondered about the angle that had to be cut for the extractor. I had imagined making the cut with the bottom parallel or mostly parallel to the top of the lug. That really then becomes quite a trick to get the case to eject properly. Also with the angle of the cut done that way, it brings into question again, about the strength of the bolt. What is done to keep the lug from weakening might weaken the face above the cut?

    Browning did say they would sell a new bolt to a gunsmith. Not to me, though. Understandable, as it's a liability problem. As of last year when I had first sent this in, Dave had not yet started working on these particular bolts. I'll check back in that direction.

    As long as I'm at it, I'm probably going to have my Sako 7mm barrel (unchambered, stamped 7mm Rem Mag) chambered for the WSM. When that ball gets rolling I'll post how things go.

    Thanks again.
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  • goodgunparts
    I thought guns had life time warranties these days.

    For the 300 + quoted wouldn't you be better off selling it as parts and getting a new gun?
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  • sandwarrior
    quote:Originally posted by goodgunparts
    I thought guns had life time warranties these days.

    For the 300 + quoted wouldn't you be better off selling it as parts and getting a new gun?


    Not when you do something like I did. Take an oversize case, last shot of the day and it goes in 7/8th's of the way. Needing only one shot to complete some testing I decided to 'force' the bolt closed. Thinking possibly that the case would fireform. It didn't. The only thing I could think to do then was beat the bolt open. That's when the little boss broke.

    Not a Winchester issue. They don't cover abuse/dumbassery.

    Not really concerned about selling the parts. I want a rifle that shoots what I want it to. The idea of the Sako extractor was an alternative to the direct approach of switching out the bolt at possibly half the cost. The point in this is I like that style action. I'm just a lot more aware of what the strength level for extraction is, or rather isn't. As noted, I'll keep posted as the project moves along in slow motion.
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