S&W 38, Model? Thoughts from the experts please
A few years back a friend gave me his .38special when he was moving. Its older than my other wheelguns but how old I just do not know. I can't find a model number anywhere and the serial number is on the bottom of the barrel and inside the crane when the model number usually is. It was in great shape till something spilled on it and it rusted [see pics] before he gave it to me. Its a 4" barrel and a skinny hammer. Shot it a few times, nothing wrong with its function. And I got it at the right price, Free!!
What I would like to know is: What model is it? In its condition what its worth as I am thinking of selling it? Anythng unusual about it? Is it a "one of a kind" worth a cool million? Well I am pretty sure thats not the case. But I would like to know if it is/was something special.
Hope the pictures turned out OK, I had to use a flash as its just too dark here in WA today.
Almost forgot, the serial number is 3322048 as best as I can read it. Very small numbers.
Edit #1 I'm looking for my magnifying glass to check the numbers. The numbers are getting smaller or I'm getting older. I'll correct them if I read them wrong.
Hawk Carse: Yes you are quite correct about the piece on the bottom. I usually put Hogue grips on them as I do like shooting it now and then. Those little bitty factory things are too small and slippery to hold onto. Keep the opinions coming. A WAG value would be appreciated.
Edit #3: Well I found my macro lense and took some better pics. I want to revise the serial number: On the barrel under the latch its S322046 and on the bottom of the grip its S22046. So the conclusions are?????
Edit#4: 11b6r, Thank you! This suprises me. I thought what others had said was indeed the case that it was post WW2 production. I could not find one "just" like it. Close yes, but not the same. If it is indeed pre WW1 I will probably keep it although its in terrible shape.
Edit #5 Ruff snow, it is an "s" and a six digit number starting with a 3. Sooooo, if it was a lunchbox special why is it serialized like that on a K frame when they only did it on N frames? Its clearly not an N frame. I think your book may be in error. I don't think it was restamped either. This is kind of like some of the back and forth on some of the Winchester discussions I have read.
Edit #6 Ruff snow, If I did the ncic thing and it came up spurious I don't thing there would be any "giggles", just "s**t". In this market I can easly sell this for 300-350. From what I gather it has no collector value.
Edit #7: Ruff, You are the only one suggesting it has a doctored serial number. I don't believe it is and no one else has suggested it either. Another has suggested that the S prefix was used on N and K frame revolvers and yet you keep insisting that it is suspect. You are entitled to you opinion but I think you are incorrect in your assessment. But thank you for your effort.
DCS shooters, thank you also. Your posts have been most helpful.
Does anyone have an opinion of value? $200 seems quite low, especially now.
Edit #8 NMYERS, tell me more about these grips. How collectable or rare are they? I never even considered that as they seemed ordinary and that there were many around.
Also if I continue this with a part 2 I will take clearer/better pictures of the buttplate serial number and the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. There is also a partial number on the inside of the crane. I'll have to set up some lights and get out my tripod to get a clear close up with my macro lense. These numbers are smaller than any other numbers on my other smiths.
Edit #9 Thankyou nmyers again. I will be selling them on GunBroker and quoting your information. This is interesting to know that the grips may be pre-WW1 era. Do you think they are original to the gun? Someone else also commented that the revolver itself may be pre WW1 era. Possible? The man that gave me this is my age and we were born mid 60s so the history of it is unknown. The more I look at the stamp the less likley I think it has been restamped. Why restamp it?
Since this is already up to 7 posts I hope the moderators will let this go a little longer.
Well its reached ten posts now and may be locked which is a shame for me. I don't want to repost all this stuff and all my questions have not been answered. These old revolvers and some old autos [pre WW2 ones] are very interesting and really should be left open for more info to build.
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What I would like to know is: What model is it? In its condition what its worth as I am thinking of selling it? Anythng unusual about it? Is it a "one of a kind" worth a cool million? Well I am pretty sure thats not the case. But I would like to know if it is/was something special.
Hope the pictures turned out OK, I had to use a flash as its just too dark here in WA today.
Almost forgot, the serial number is 3322048 as best as I can read it. Very small numbers.
Edit #1 I'm looking for my magnifying glass to check the numbers. The numbers are getting smaller or I'm getting older. I'll correct them if I read them wrong.
Hawk Carse: Yes you are quite correct about the piece on the bottom. I usually put Hogue grips on them as I do like shooting it now and then. Those little bitty factory things are too small and slippery to hold onto. Keep the opinions coming. A WAG value would be appreciated.
Edit #3: Well I found my macro lense and took some better pics. I want to revise the serial number: On the barrel under the latch its S322046 and on the bottom of the grip its S22046. So the conclusions are?????
Edit#4: 11b6r, Thank you! This suprises me. I thought what others had said was indeed the case that it was post WW2 production. I could not find one "just" like it. Close yes, but not the same. If it is indeed pre WW1 I will probably keep it although its in terrible shape.
Edit #5 Ruff snow, it is an "s" and a six digit number starting with a 3. Sooooo, if it was a lunchbox special why is it serialized like that on a K frame when they only did it on N frames? Its clearly not an N frame. I think your book may be in error. I don't think it was restamped either. This is kind of like some of the back and forth on some of the Winchester discussions I have read.
Edit #6 Ruff snow, If I did the ncic thing and it came up spurious I don't thing there would be any "giggles", just "s**t". In this market I can easly sell this for 300-350. From what I gather it has no collector value.
Edit #7: Ruff, You are the only one suggesting it has a doctored serial number. I don't believe it is and no one else has suggested it either. Another has suggested that the S prefix was used on N and K frame revolvers and yet you keep insisting that it is suspect. You are entitled to you opinion but I think you are incorrect in your assessment. But thank you for your effort.
DCS shooters, thank you also. Your posts have been most helpful.
Does anyone have an opinion of value? $200 seems quite low, especially now.
Edit #8 NMYERS, tell me more about these grips. How collectable or rare are they? I never even considered that as they seemed ordinary and that there were many around.
Also if I continue this with a part 2 I will take clearer/better pictures of the buttplate serial number and the serial number on the bottom of the barrel. There is also a partial number on the inside of the crane. I'll have to set up some lights and get out my tripod to get a clear close up with my macro lense. These numbers are smaller than any other numbers on my other smiths.
Edit #9 Thankyou nmyers again. I will be selling them on GunBroker and quoting your information. This is interesting to know that the grips may be pre-WW1 era. Do you think they are original to the gun? Someone else also commented that the revolver itself may be pre WW1 era. Possible? The man that gave me this is my age and we were born mid 60s so the history of it is unknown. The more I look at the stamp the less likley I think it has been restamped. Why restamp it?
Since this is already up to 7 posts I hope the moderators will let this go a little longer.
Well its reached ten posts now and may be locked which is a shame for me. I don't want to repost all this stuff and all my questions have not been answered. These old revolvers and some old autos [pre WW2 ones] are very interesting and really should be left open for more info to build.
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It appears to be a post W W II, Military and Police model. It would date probably to the 47-48 1955 time frame. The first digit of the serial number you gave us is most likely the letter "S""C", rather then the number 3. Or possibly the same miscreant who removed the serial number from the butt altered the other serial numbers?
Considering the condition it's in now, and that the main serial number has been removed. I would forget about selling it. It might cause you way more problems with the badge boys, then you could make money wise selling it.
EDIT #1, According to the Smith & Wesson Book. The "S" prefix was used on heavy duty "N" frame, Model .38-44 revolvers, after W W II. Serial Number(s) given were between "S62489" & "S219999". Because of this don't have a clue what your revolver is? Have to believe it's some kind of a lunch box special. That was assembled from parts, by persons unknown?
I don't know if Roy Jenks is still with us? If not contact Supica or Nahas who wrote the S & W book. Maybe they could figure out what it is?
EDIT #2, The only thing I can think of is that # 22046 is the original serial number, putting DOM in 1902. The serial number has had a spurious alpha prefix added since then to alter it, for reasons unknown?
Just for s**t and giggles go down to your local cop shop and ask them to run a Smith & Wesson, Military & Police, with a serial number of #22046 through the NCIC, and see what happens?
"Edit #6 Ruff snow, If I did the ncic thing and it came up spurious I don't thing there would be any "giggles", just "s**t". In this market I can easly sell this for 300-350. From what I gather it has no collector value. "
EDIT #3, Not all Badge Boy's are dummies, if you run across one that is knowledgeable Vis a Vis S & W's. Selling a Smith with a doctored serial number, might lead to negative repercussions for you.0 -
I believe the revolver to be older than 1948.
A post on the S&W board says the "mushroom head" extractor rod was dropped in 1927 and the hooked hammer spur is a pre-war pattern, although they may have had some left after the war.
The domed end hammer pin showing in the left frame is an old style.
The grips, if original, are an older style.
I gotta get a SCSW to pin this stuff down.
The revolver has been refinished, the markings are a bit washed out and the hammer and trigger are blue, which S&W did not do.
The gadget on the butt is the attaching bracket for a Hogue Monogrip. Can't imagine the regular wood grips fitting very well with it in place.0 -
At first glance it has a definite 1930s look to it. 0 -
I looked in SCSW and could not find a serial number as high as what you gave. It certainly looks to me like a pre-WWII revolver. 0 -
I THINK what you have may be a Model of 1905. However, the serial number is on the butt of the revolver, under that Hogue clip. Remove the clip, and look there. If that serial number has been removed or obliterated, then I think the value is $0, since it is a violation of Federal law to remove or damage a serial number, or possess a gun with one such. Serial number range for that revolver topped out at 1,000,000. You are indicating a 3 million + SN. Does not compute.
EDIT:
The SN would appear to indicate a .38 Military & Police Model of 1905, 3rd change. These were serially numbered 146900 thru 241703. They were made from 1909-1915.0 -
That's a long-action, and S&W changed the design to the short-action, recognizeable by the relocation of the hammer spur to mid-hammer, around 1950.
It is legal to remove a serial number only if the number is re-established on the gun. It can be found on the inside surface of the extractor star, inside of the sideplate, and on the rear of the cylinder, among other places, so you can have someone with a set of metal stamps re-mark it on the frame exterior, and legalize it again.0 -
Your gun looks like a M&P model 1905, 4th change. They were made from 1915-1942.
In it's condition it's worth about $200.
EDIT, S22046 is a 1945-48 manufacture [^]
The "S" was used on both post war "K" frames and "N" frames [;)]0 -
quote:Originally posted by dcs shooters
Your gun looks like a M&P model 1905, 4th change. They were made from 1915-1942.
In it's condition it's worth about $200.
EDIT, S22046 is a 1945-48 manufacture [^]
The "S" was used on both post war "K" frames and "N" frames [;)]
The post World War II, M & P's with "S" prefix serial numbers had 6 digits in their serial numbers. From 811338 to 999999.0 -
It's likely that this post WILL run > 10 responses; all you have to do when it gets locked is open another post with the same name & add "Part II". That is the recommended way to do it.
As for the SN, your photo of the butt of the gun is prima facie evidence that the serial number has been restamped. The numbers are in the white, which we call "burnished". Like most guns, these revolvers were serial numbered before being blued. If markings are removed, & the gun is refinished, & then the markings are restamped, we will always see burnishing within the markings because the blued surface will be pushed aside by the stamping die. It might be clearer if we had a focused photo of the SN.
Since it is legal to restamp an SN removed during refinishing, I don't think that you would have a problem transferring the gun through a dealer. But, that may or may not be the original SN. The folks at ATF could probably tell with X-rays or magnafluxing or some other technique, but they usually only do that with crime guns. Is there an SN stamped on the cylinder face?
I agree with rufe-snow's value estimate, but I think half of that would be for the scarce early grips.
Neal
EDIT: Your grips are, according to the Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, "K Frame Hand Ejector Stocks, walnut, square butt, with recessed gold medallions, used about 1910-about 1920". Someone with a nice condition gun made in that period, but missing original grips, might pay a lot of money for them. It all depends on timing, luck, & where you offer them.0 -
I bought a set of grips that were identical to those, except that they were round-butt, at an auction. They had been loosely attached to a real junker Iver Johnson break-top, I was high bidder on the gun for $10, and I sold the gun for $5 for parts (which was probably $5 more than it was worth), and the grips for $50. There always seems to be more used S&W's out there (of any vintage) than there are proper grips. 0
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