Link To BATFE Documentation for non licensee
I need a link to some BATFE documentation that statess that a non licensee (private citizen) does NOT need an actual, signed copy of the receiving FFL.
I have been told by some gun dealers that the only thing I need to ship to them is a portion of their FFL number which I then can plug into EZ Check which then verifies their status and address.
Gunbroker shipping instructions state that you need an actual signed copy.
Thanks
I have been told by some gun dealers that the only thing I need to ship to them is a portion of their FFL number which I then can plug into EZ Check which then verifies their status and address.
Gunbroker shipping instructions state that you need an actual signed copy.
Thanks
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An individual who is a 03 FFL licensee, can do business as he chooses, within legal limits. If he doesn't have to legally send you a photo copy of his FFL, that up to him. 0 -
Title 27: Alcohol, Tobacco Products, and Firearms
CHAPTER II: BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO, FIREARMS, AND EXPLOSIVES, DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
SUBCHAPTER B: FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
PART 478: COMMERCE IN FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION
Subpart F: Conduct of Business
478.94 - Sales or deliveries between licensees.A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer selling or otherwise disposing of firearms, and a licensed collector selling or otherwise disposing of curios or relics, to another licensee shall verify the identity and licensed status of the transferee prior to making the transaction. Verification shall be established by the transferee furnishing to the transferor a certified copy of the transferee's license and by such other means as the transferor deems necessary: Provided, That it shall not be required (a) for a transferee who has furnished a certified copy of its license to a transferor to again furnish such certified copy to that transferor during the term of the transferee's current license, (b) for a licensee to furnish a certified copy of its license to another licensee if a firearm is being returned either directly or through another licensee to such licensee and (c) for licensees of multilicensed business organizations to furnish certified copies of their licenses to other licensed locations operated by such organization: Provided further, That a multilicensed business organization may furnish to a transferor, in lieu of a certified copy of each license, a list, certified to be true, correct and complete, containing the name, address, license number, and the date of license expiration of each licensed location operated by such organization, and the transferor may sell or otherwise dispose of firearms as provided by this section to any licensee appearing on such list without requiring a certified copy of a license therefrom. A transferor licensee who has the certified information required by this section may sell or dispose of firearms to a licensee for not more than 45 days following the expiration date of the transferee's license.
The above applies ONLY to transfers between licenses, that means individuals or business that hold Federal Firearms licenses. If you don't have an FFL then the person on the receiving end (if a dealer) does not legally need to send a copy of his license, he simply needs to provide you with the FFL number which you can then verify through the FFL EZ Check system.
With that said, the dealer can certainly send you a copy if he wishes to do so. I do it all the time, but he is not legally bound to provide the copy on demand.0 -
Much appreciated. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by DuaneRN
I need a link to some BATFE documentation that statess that a non licensee (private citizen) does NOT need an actual, signed copy of the receiving FFL. . . .
You won't find any such statement in the law because it doesn't exist. The law merely states that a non-licensee can only ship interstate to an FFL. It's up to you as to how exactly you determine that. Some will say you should have a signed copy in your hands, some will say run the number through the ATF check system. However you do it is up to you. GB is supposed to have a list of FFLs on file that will accept shipment. My local small gun shop is one of them and I never have to ask them for a copy.
The same applies to a Driver's License as proof of residency and age. Anyone can get a DL that says anything they want it to. Only you can decide if it's legit.
It's like any other law. The individual has to determine if what he is doing is legal or illegal.0 -
Cheechako is right, there is no specific reference in ATF regulations that tells us exactly how a nonlicensee should determine the validity of an FFL's license.
The folks at ATF really try to make their rules clear & get them out to dealers & the public. But, for many years, the Dept of Justice appropriations bills have had specific riders that prohibit many efforts to clarify their regulations. So, we try to find similar information in the regs, & extrapolate that to a specific question. In this case, there are several places in the regs that strongly recommend verifying dealer ID through the ATF EZ-Check; print out the EZ-Check for your records, make sure that it shows the address to which you are being asked to ship, & you should be safe. (A dealer can have guns shipped to an address that does not appear on his license, but he better make sure that you are comfortable with the validity of that address.)
And, there's always common sense. I doubt that Ruger will send you a copy of their manufacturer's license, but you are probably safe shipping one of their guns to them for repair/replacement. That's because you KNOW that they are really licensed. If I did business with a gunshop in my town for many years, I would feel safe shipping a gun to that shop without a license copy, because I KNOW that their doors wouldn't be open if they didn't have one.
Neal0 -
How can you make sure that the buyer of the gun you are selling to him, is being forced to do a background check by the FFL holder that you ship the gun to?
Also, what happens to your Gunbroker.com sale, if the buyer has a background check done by the FFL licensee that the gun was shipped to, and the buyer rejected by the ATF in his background check?0 -
1. It's the responsibility of the FFL to do whatever checks and paperwork are required. But, there are crooked FFLs just like there are crooked ___________________. (enter your own occupation here). If he doesn't get caught he's home free. If he does get caught he will be punished appropriately.
2. I believe at that point the firearm belongs to the FFL holder. It's in his books and he will report the situation to BATF&E. I'm not sure what criteria they use to resolve the situation. I know I have bought firearms from my local FFL that were originally intended for another person but who failed to show up.
Current FFLs can probably best answer #2.
ray0 -
If the purchaser is legally unable to receive the firearm, it does NOT belong to the receiving FFL. It is in his "care and custody"- a different legal matter. He may sell it for the failed purchaser, buy it for himself or may return it to the seller. If it is returned to the seller, no "transfer of ownership" has taken place. No FFL required to return a gun to its owner. 0 -
11b6r
I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but I have some questions.
If the firearm was never transferred to the buyer, does he legaly own it? It seems to me it would have to be his in order to get payment for it. No?
If the FFL returns it, who will pay the shipping and FFL fees?
What about the situation that I mentioned earlier - the local FFL received the firearm but the buyer never showed up to claim it. Who owns it? He sold it to me so I assume he had some legal right to do that.
Ray0 -
There is a thread on another Forum that asks these same questions. The answers are just as vague.
Ray0
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