Difference in recoil between 870 and 1100??
I have been told that the Remington 1100 recoils less than the Remington 870 in the same gauge. Gas venting? So anyway, if this is true, just how much less recoil does the 1100 have? Does an 1100 in a 12 gauge recoil similarly to an 870 in a 20 gauge?
My reasons for asking are that I have had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder (I'm right handed) and I'm kinda afraid to light off my 870 12 gauge but have shot my 870 20 gauge with no problems. I am just real big on the 12 gauge as a home defense weapon. So if there is enough difference in the recoil between 1100/1187 and the 870 I can get an 1100 and be back where I want to be with a 12 gauge. There are other semis other than Remington. Anybody have any preferences or thoughts on this matter??
My reasons for asking are that I have had shoulder surgery on my right shoulder (I'm right handed) and I'm kinda afraid to light off my 870 12 gauge but have shot my 870 20 gauge with no problems. I am just real big on the 12 gauge as a home defense weapon. So if there is enough difference in the recoil between 1100/1187 and the 870 I can get an 1100 and be back where I want to be with a 12 gauge. There are other semis other than Remington. Anybody have any preferences or thoughts on this matter??
0
-
I would stick with the 20, if you are recuperating from shoulder surgery. In close-up, room distance, home defense scenarios a 20 will do the job. 0 -
You say home defense.
Did not know anyone shouldered a shotgun for home defense. How big is your house that you need to aim like hunting ducks?
I would not be big on a semi auto for home defense anyway. The best part of a shotgun for home use is the sound of racking a round.
If you ever did have to use it in the home I doubt you would ever notice the recoil and a sore shoulder would be the least of my worries.0 -
I agree with rufe-snow,get good and healed first.My 1187 12ga.does have less recoil than my 870 12ga.The 20ga.should do you just fine as a home defense gun. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by dreher
I have been told that the Remington 1100 recoils less than the Remington 870 in the same gauge. Gas venting? So anyway, if this is true, just how much less recoil does the 1100 have? Does an 1100 in a 12 gauge recoil similarly to an 870 in a 20 gauge?
All else being equal, semiauto guns offer significantly less perceived recoil less than pump ones in the same caliber.
Its not that they physically recoil less (ie you can't overcome Newtonian physics F = MA), its just that the semiauto action softens the recoil impulse a bit by spreading it out over a longer period of time.
How much is the difference? Its a bit difficult to quantify, but I'd say the perceived reduction in recoil is maybe about 30%. From experience, I'll say the difference is a lot more noticeable at the end of the day when you're finishing up that round of 100 clays rather than at the beginning! [:p]
IMO all else being equal a 12 gauge auto still kicks harder than a 20 pump. But not all else is always equal. Poor fitting 20 may hurt the shoulder more than a well-fitted 12, and usually the 20 gauge guns are lighter, magnifying their recoil a bit. You can also always add a recoil pad, too.
I'd agree with Rufe and say if you're comfortable with a 20, then use a 20.
A 20 gauge shotgun will put out a 270 grain slug at greater than 1500 feet per second, making it directly comparable to a hot-loaded .44 magnum load. I'd say that's "enough gun" for home defense so long as you put the slug in the right place.
quote:Goodgunparts
Did not know anyone shouldered a shotgun for home defense
Well, contrary to popular belief, shotgun pellets barely spread at short range, yielding a pattern only a few inches wide. That means the hoary story about "point in the general direction" is a bunch of BS. You DO have to aim the gun if you want to hit something.
Yes, with some practice, you can get reasonable close range accuracy point-shooting from the hip, but most people are going to have a much better chance of actually connecting (let alone precisely placing your shot), if you shoulder the gun.
quote:I would not be big on a semi auto for home defense anyway. US military currently issues Benelli semiauto shotguns for front line combat. IMO, if they're good enough for actual combat by US Marines in grungy field conditions, they ought to be good enough for low-round count indoor use in clean dry environments.
In general, a good semiauto is highly reliable. I've seen 1000+ consecutive shells run though a Beretta semiauto with zero maintenance and zero malfunctions.
quote:The best part of a shotgun for home use is the sound of racking a round.
IMO, the "shotgun racking sound" is is one of those dumb hairy chested legends that can't be dismissed often enough.
You're going to wait until your home invader gets within earshot before you load your weapon? (IE giving up any element of surprise you may have, and also alerting the invaders' armed associate?).
Lets say you rack your gun, and the invader doesn't run away. What are you going to do then. . .rack it again (thereby ejecting one of your few live rounds?).
If the sound by itself is such a great deterrent, why even bother with a shotgun at all? Why not just carry a tape recorder with a pre-recorded sound of a shotgun racking and play it as the situation demands?
I admit that the sound of a shotgun being racked can be fairly intimidating, but you'd be a fool to rely on the sound as a core part of your home defense tactics.
quote:If you ever did have to use it in the home I doubt you would ever notice the recoil and a sore shoulder would be the least of my worries. There I do agree, but for one thing.
If you want to be ready for your shotgun for home defense, you will want to practice with it, and even if one shot won't mess up your shoulder, running a few boxes for practice every so often might (and might also cause you to develop a flinch).
IMO, you want maximum confidence in your gun, should it come down to using it for defense.
Edit, Responding to Goodgunparts below:
quote:Like I asked how big is his house. Most people live in place they can not turn around in with a shotgun shouldered.
Well, I'm of normal height, and I have no problem turning around with a shouldered longarm in a 5x5 foot walk-in closet. (And I've actually done this. . .don't ask me why). I'd hope most peoples homes are larger than this.
But, I guess if you happen to live in a apartment smaller than my closet, then (get the heck out of Manhattan) and get a handgun for defense (preferably a snubnose!). Personally, I prefer a handgun for defense anyway since it frees up one hand, but a shotgun is perfectly viable, and that wasn't the question. Whichever weapon you're most proficient with is always the best choice.
On semi-auto shotguns, you said none of them were good for defense. Now only Benellis are?
I'd say a Remington 1100 probably isn't quite as reliable as the Benelli, but even the Remington should still go at least several hundred rounds without cleaning, making it as reliable as many semi-auto combat handguns or rifles.0 -
How would low recoil defensive rounds fit into the discussion? I'veseen them in 12s but not 20s. Never shot any so I haven't any experience to draw on. 0 -
I had two surgeries due to
shoulder dislocations on my left shoulder.
It took years, years and years before
I could shoot a slug out of an 1100.
I had my last surgery I think in '85.
Now, no issues, but for years it was 20 ga only.0 -
Well, since you asked for our thoughts.......
......if you live in an area that is so dangerous that you feel the need to have a shotgun handy for home defense, you would be better served by installation of a perimeter security system.
If your perimeter is breeched, then you should go to a handgun & a high output flashlight.
Neal0 -
quote:Originally posted by victorj19
How would low recoil defensive rounds fit into the discussion? I'veseen them in 12s but not 20s. Never shot any so I haven't any experience to draw on.
I've never heard of a low-recoil 20, and I doubt they exist. What exactly is the market for this round? More specifically, the 20 itself is already "low recoil". . .that's the whole reason you're using a 20 instead of a 12!
On low-recoil 12 gauge shells, there are a whole bunch of different ones out there and they reduce the recoil in different ways.
Some take the same number of pellets as a standard load, just shoot them slower. Some reduce the number of pellets, but shoot them at the same velocity as a standard load. And I think there are some that reduce the pellet count AND velocity.
Generalizing, these probably reduce recoil by about 25-35% depending on the brand and what you're comparing to. They're probably still better than a 20 gauge in terms of ballistics *IF* you're interested in buckshot.0 -
I say, for what little it's worth, just stay with your 20 in a short (18"-20") configuration. The last thing you want to do is re-injure yourself and maybe put all future use of shoulder arms out of the picture. If the recoil of the 12 is too much, the 20 will fill in nicely.
The 20 gauge, with decent buckshot loads, will do the job if you do yours. As stated above, this requires pactice to become proficient, and this is where the re-injury may occur. Personally I prefer rifle-sights or a ghost ring/rifle front sight on my defensive shotguns, others can do a-ok with just a bead. The 870 20 gauge can be set up with anything you choose easily.
With a bit of maintenance, the 1100 and the 870 will both work and work and work and work. I would feel well armed with either one.
I do NOT recommend using light-recoil buckshot or slug loads for defensive semi-autos. Some semis use gas (1100) some recoil (Benelli) to operate. The "light recoil" comes with a price (usually lower operating pressure and/or lighter payloads) so operation may not be with gas guns (and with recoil guns will not be) 100%....and anything less than 100% reliability in a defensive firearm is unacceptable. A pump won't have this problem, and in a case like yours it might actually help you.
As for the "racking" sound of a pump shotgun (Or a semi, I used Benelli's for 14 of my 22 years so far); I have personally seen crooks wet their pants and drop spread-eagled to the ground at that sound. I have also seen them take it as a challenge, and while unarmed and standing still then dare the operator to shoot them. What do you do now? Yes, that sound can be intimidating and work to get immediate compliance, it can also make the operator unsure what to do next when the "expected" action of the crook to soil his undies and flop to the floor is not what happens. (This is what everybody with a gun for defense should plan for as well)
Good luck, and hope you heal back to 100%!0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Goodgunparts
Did not know anyone shouldered a shotgun for home defense
Well, contrary to popular belief, shotgun pellets barely spread at short range, yielding a pattern only a few inches wide. That means the hoary story about "point in the general direction" is a bunch of BS. You DO have to aim the gun if you want to hit something.
Yes, with some practice, you can get reasonable close range accuracy point-shooting from the hip, but most people are going to have a much better chance of actually connecting (let alone precisely placing your shot), if you shoulder the gun.
quote:I would not be big on a semi auto for home defense anyway. US military currently issues Benelli semiauto shotguns for front line combat. IMO, if they're good enough for actual combat by US Marines in grungy field conditions, they ought to be good enough for low-round count indoor use in clean dry environments.
In general, a good semiauto is highly reliable. I've seen 1000+ consecutive shells run though a Beretta semiauto with zero maintenance and zero malfunctions.
Like I asked how big is his house. Most people live in place they can not turn around in with a shotgun shouldered. The time it takes to find a clear space and shoulder a shotgun is wasted in the 10 to 20 feet you have in a true home defense action. Remember most if not all jurisdictions will not let you shoot them in the driveway.
As to the Benelli comment. Do I really need to point out that it is not a Remington 1100? Sure the US Military used Semi's in the service way back when the 11 or Auto 5 was the gun. Used many more pumps not only because they cost less. They worked!
Like I asked how big is his house. Most people live in place they can not turn around in with a shotgun shouldered. The time it takes to find a clear space and shoulder a shotgun is waisted in the 10 to 20 feet you have in a true home defence action. Remember most if not all juristictions will not let you shoot them in the driveway.0
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
10 comments