Mauser extractor question
I noticed that when the bolt is in the raised position to draw out the cartridge the claw extractor has a tight grip upon the rimless head, as it should. When bolt is down in fire position the claw extractor now rotated has a loose grip on the rimless cartridge allowing it to seat squarely upon the bolt face.Again as it should. During this operation the claw does not change it position of depth within the rim, it appears to move rearward.
Question is since the extractor rotates, banded to the bolt and following a channel on the bolt head, how does it accomplish this movement?
Question is since the extractor rotates, banded to the bolt and following a channel on the bolt head, how does it accomplish this movement?
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the bolt moves very slightly forward when rotated to the closed position forcing the extractor to 'ride up' the extractor grove in the cartridge head. 0 -
jaegermeister,
As MIKE WHISKEY said, the bolt face moves forward. To see why this happens note that there is a slight angle on the leading edges of the lugs in the direction of rotation. As you rotate the bolt, the lugs cam on each other to move it slightly forward.0 -
Question about Mauser extractor operation: I have a very accurate customized 243 M98 Mauser and if a round is dropped into the chamber, (not fed from the magazine) the bolt handle has to be smartly bumped to close the action. It appears this smart hand rap to the bolt handle is to get the extractor to jump over the rim of the cartridge. Is this normal with Mauser actions or guns that have the controlled feed extractors or is their a cure to soften the bolt closing when a round is hand fed into the chamber? I'm not sure the extractor is the original extractor. I've had the extractor out of the bolt and don't see anything wrong other than it grips the case very snug and tight when a hull is inserted into the bolt when inspecting! Don't mean to hijack a thread but this seems related to the original subject. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Okie743
Question about Mauser extractor operation: I have a very accurate customized 243 M98 Mauser and if a round is dropped into the chamber, (not fed from the magazine) the bolt handle has to be smartly bumped to close the action. It appears this smart hand rap to the bolt handle is to get the extractor to jump over the rim of the cartridge. Is this normal with Mauser actions or guns that have the controlled feed extractors or is their a cure to soften the bolt closing when a round is hand fed into the chamber? I'm not sure the extractor is the original extractor. I've had the extractor out of the bolt and don't see anything wrong other than it grips the case very snug and tight when a hull is inserted into the bolt when inspecting! Don't mean to hijack a thread but this seems related to the original subject.
It is not 'normal'. Normal feeding is accomplished through the magazine. However, in most Mauser type actions this can be accomplished because of the 'urgency' of the situation. Anywhere you can feed a round the action will take and chamber it by popping the extractor over the rim.
Mauser designed it to be this way. On some Mauser actions, those dimensions were left off the rifle. There is no cutout for the extractor to widen out and jump over the rim. Just enough room for it to go into the forward ring.
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quote:Originally posted by jaegermister
I am familiar with how the bolt face moves forward as it engages the lug recesses in the receiver.. If you take a round place it on the bolt face, in your hand , with extractor at the bolt unlock position the extractor will hold and bear down tight on the case rim, now rotate the bolt in your hand to bring the lugs into fire position. You will notice the extractor although still within the rim recess loosens its grip. It appears to move forward during bolt lockup and draw back during extraction. How is this accomplished?
None of mine do as you describe with the bolt out. the only thing I can see to do that with is an angular cutout for the extractor retainer or the follower groove.
On mine I just checked and what happens is when the extractor is in the feed/extract position it holds the groove of the case between it and the ejector boss. As you rotate the extractor there is nothing to hold it between.0 -
quote:Originally posted by sandwarrior
quote:Originally posted by Okie743
Question about Mauser extractor operation: I have a very accurate customized 243 M98 Mauser and if a round is dropped into the chamber, (not fed from the magazine) the bolt handle has to be smartly bumped to close the action. It appears this smart hand rap to the bolt handle is to get the extractor to jump over the rim of the cartridge. Is this normal with Mauser actions or guns that have the controlled feed extractors or is their a cure to soften the bolt closing when a round is hand fed into the chamber? I'm not sure the extractor is the original extractor. I've had the extractor out of the bolt and don't see anything wrong other than it grips the case very snug and tight when a hull is inserted into the bolt when inspecting! Don't mean to hijack a thread but this seems related to the original subject.
It is not 'normal'. Normal feeding is accomplished through the magazine. However, in most Mauser type actions this can be accomplished because of the 'urgency' of the situation. Anywhere you can feed a round the action will take and chamber it by popping the extractor over the rim.
Mauser designed it to be this way. On some Mauser actions, those dimensions were left off the rifle. There is no cutout for the extractor to widen out and jump over the rim. Just enough room for it to go into the forward ring.
I have a M77 Ruger 223 that has a extractor similiar to the controlled round feeding M98's bolt 243 extractor and I can drop a round into the M77 ruger receiver and close the Rugers bolt with normal smooth friction. The extractors of both rifles have similiar forward beveling of the extractor so as to jump a rim. Like you say the Mauser feeds smooth when the bolt picks up the shell from the magazine, but I thought it should close easier due to the Ruger being smooth. I leave the M98 as is mainly due to it being a very accurate rifle shooting max velocity reloads.Also if the feed shell from the magazine comes loose (gets in front of extractor) during a reload feeding cycle the bolt requires popping the bolt handle smartly to close the bolt which is asggravating at times, therefore make the first shot count. (grandaughter shot her first deer with the M98)0 -
I am familiar with how the bolt face moves forward as it engages the lug recesses in the receiver.. If you take a round place it on the bolt face, in your hand , with extractor at the bolt unlock position the extractor will hold and bear down tight on the case rim, now rotate the bolt in your hand to bring the lugs into fire position. You will notice the extractor although still within the rim recess loosens its grip. It appears to move forward during bolt lockup and draw back during extraction. How is this accomplished? 0 -
I have a M77 Ruger 223 that has a extractor similiar to the controlled round feeding M98's bolt 243 extractor and I can drop a round into the M77 ruger receiver and close the Rugers bolt with normal smooth friction. The extractors of both rifles have similiar forward beveling of the extractor so as to jump a rim. Like you say the Mauser feeds smooth when the bolt picks up the shell from the magazine, but I thought it should close easier due to the Ruger being smooth. I leave the M98 as is mainly due to it being a very accurate rifle shooting max velocity reloads.Also if the feed shell from the magazine comes loose (gets in front of extractor) during a reload feeding cycle the bolt requires popping the bolt handle smartly to close the bolt which is asggravating at times, therefore make the first shot count. (grandaughter shot her first deer with the M98)
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Depending on the year of Ruger rifle, it is not a true controlled round feed action. The rounds from the mag cannot feed up due to the metal ring around the outer edge of the bolt face.(short version). The M98 extractor can be shaped to push feed easier but you loose something in the ejection department.0 -
The 98 Mauser, designed as a military arm, has a feature that increases pressure on the extractor hook (sideways) during the extraction function. The harder a case is to withdraw (fouling, dirt) the more pressure is applied to the hook which bites harder into the case groove. It is hard to describe but you will see it if you examine the bolt head area. 0 -
Do not confuse my original question. Extractor jump up over a cartridge placed directly into the chamber is a totally different topic. Most educated Mauser owners always bring the cartridge up from the magazine, and most original mausers will not allow a bump over with the extractor.
As far as I can see the extractor head runs in a groove channel near the bolt face. This channel has a drill pocket to allow dirt to accumulate. There does not appear to be any incline to this channel and the claw arm does not move only in a rotating motion. Yet it accomplishes the action I described above. This can be viewed by placing a round on the face and moving the claw. I can not see how this is happening? Perhaps we need a true Mauser expert to weigh in.0 -
#1:How do you know the extractor has "a loose grip on the case"? With the cartridge in the chamber and the bolt closed, it's pretty difficult to determine this condition. Is the extractor bearing too tightly against the face of the barrel shank?
#2: Maybe I'm not paying enough attention but I've NEVER noticed this extractor movement taking place on any of the 10-12 Mausers I have(both profesionally sporterized and original military condition).
#3: When loading directly into the chamber(not commonly recommended), pressing inward(toward the bolt body) on the exposed extractor 1/2 way between the extractor ring and the rear support will ease the force to hop the extractor over the cartridge rim and save wear on the extractor hook.0 -
Had a pre-64 M.70 once that balked at closing on a round not fed from the magazine. For whatever reason (It's been a while now and I forget.) I got into the habit of pressing in on the side of the extractor, mid-bolt, while closing. FWIW [:D] 0 -
Mobuck, you take a cartridge and place it on the bolt face, no gun needed.
Holding as such rotate extractor to each position, lock fire, and unlock extract.
This topic is not at all about forcing the claw over a chambered round.0
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