"X"ed out stock numbers on jungle carbine?

desmond30

October 19, 2012 05:12

Have a carbine on the auction board and wonder what might be the history on it. There are three numbers on the butt stock but they have been overstamped with three "X"s. All other numbers match.
Any explaination appreciated.

0

• 

  Spider7115

  October 19, 2012 05:40

  And the auction number is...........?

  0
• 

  fastcarsgofast

  October 19, 2012 08:19

  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=311434154

  0
• 

  nmyers

  October 19, 2012 08:44

  Many foreign militaries like their firearms to have some/most/all parts numbered when manufacturered. When they go to an arsenal for repair or rebuilding, like this one, parts are often replaced with used parts. So, the numbers no longer match. Depending on the arsenal, the old number may be lined out &/or the "correct" number will be stamped on the part, giving us a "forced match" gun.
  
  It's meaningless to say "matching numbers except for.....". It's either "matching numbers", or "numbers do not match".
  
  Kind of like when your date tells you she's "a virgin except for....".
  
  Neal
  
  EDIT: There's no way of knowing the "history" of a 65 year old milsurp; it's been through the military, importers, & private hands. It shouldn't matter now, you have a winning bid; the bidders are apparently satisfied.

  0
• 

  desmond30

  October 19, 2012 13:44

  OK. So while it isn't "matching", it may be arsenal rebuilt...or not. Without forced numers stamped on the stock, there is no way to tell (?).
  
  
  
  
  quote:Originally posted by nmyers
  Many foreign militaries like their firearms to have some/most/all parts numbered when manufacturered. When they go to an arsenal for repair or rebuilding, like this one, parts are often replaced with used parts. So, the numbers no longer match. Depending on the arsenal, the old number may be lined out &/or the "correct" number will be stamped on the part, giving us a "forced match" gun.
  
  
  
  
  It's meaningless to say "matching numbers except for.....". It's either "matching numbers", or "numbers do not match".
  
  Kind of like when your date tells you she's "a virgin except for....".
  
  Neal

  0
• 

  competentone

  October 20, 2012 05:19

  quote:Originally posted by nmyers
  
  
  It's meaningless to say "matching numbers except for.....". It's either "matching numbers", or "numbers do not match".
  
  Kind of like when your date tells you she's "a virgin except for....".
  
  
  
  So you'd see no difference between: "a virgin except for the one former boyfriend I slept with..."
  
  and: "a virgin except for the 20 guys I've slept with after they picked me up at bars..."

  0
• 

  heavyiron

  October 20, 2012 13:48

  Hi,
  
  +1 for Neal.
  
  I am no expert on the No. 5. These rifles were only made for three years - 1944 to 1947. There were only 251,368 rifles produced in total according to most accounts. After WWII they were used in the far East in locations such as India, Malaysia, the Malayan Emergency (1948 to 1960), Korea, Pakistan and other British Commonwealth countries to name a few. There are probably still some in use somewhere today.
  
  Each country or locality had its own accountability system for keeping track of the rifles and you might need to know where the rifle was when the stock numbers were overstamped to understand the history.
  
  As time proceeded, parts for these rifles and the skill required to repair them became more and more difficult to find. The stocks of some No. 5's were marked "BLR" (beyond local repair) on them - I have seem photos of these. Many were probably refurbished at an arsenal (the term arsenal used broadly here) and swapped out with pieces and parts from BLR rifles to make a complete and functioning rifle.
  
  I don't think the owners of these rifles were really as concerned with the original parts numbers (except the British) as much as they were concerned with keeping an account of who had the rifles, where they were, and their status.
  
  There were a number of versions including the No. 5 Mark I and several varieties of the No. 5 Mark 2 and their history is long and confusing because of their distribution and long use throughout the world.
  
  I own two of these and love shooting them. They are a real piece of history in their own right.
  
  Heavyiron

  0
• 

  desmond30

  October 21, 2012 14:13

  Thanks for the info. It is helpful as I really didn't start thinking about it until I was taking the pics to post on the auction. I figured "someone" added the stock and "X"ed out the numbers to show that it was done with some logic. I was hoping that it was a particular practice of a particular arsenal or service, but I see now I will never know what happened. Just another mystery! Much like the Colombian FN49 with Viet Nam capture papers...
  
  
  quote:Originally posted by nmyers
  Many foreign militaries like their firearms to have some/most/all parts numbered when manufacturered. When they go to an arsenal for repair or rebuilding, like this one, parts are often replaced with used parts. So, the numbers no longer match. Depending on the arsenal, the old number may be lined out &/or the "correct" number will be stamped on the part, giving us a "forced match" gun.
  
  It's meaningless to say "matching numbers except for.....". It's either "matching numbers", or "numbers do not match".
  
  Kind of like when your date tells you she's "a virgin except for....".
  
  Neal
  
  EDIT: There's no way of knowing the "history" of a 65 year old milsurp; it's been through the military, importers, & private hands. It shouldn't matter now, you have a winning bid; the bidders are apparently satisfied.

  0

Please sign in to leave a comment.