9mm largo
I'm sure this question has been beat to death but can a 9mm largo fire 38 super ammo. I got one from a friend and he said it was safe with a inserted recoil buffer,which i did?
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This is the only "oddball " cartridge that I have. I shoot it in a Star Super (A, I think). I know this is basically a Spanish caliber. I have a few questions. First does anyone else out there shoot this cal on a regular basis and if yes could you tell me your comments good and bad? and second, Can I shoot the modern 9X23 ammo in it safely? The gun is in good shape but according to the ballistics it looks like a 300fps jump. To say the least that concerns me a little. 0 -
No! The 9 X 23 is a much more hotly loaded, high pressure cartridge. Using it in the older Spanish made pistols chambered for the 9mm Largo, would be a recipe for disaster. 0 -
Very unsafe..
9mm Largo is still around.. CCI has made a run or two of it, and might offer it again..
http://www.gunbroker.com/Ammunition/BI.aspx?Keywords=9mm+LARGO0 -
OTOH, if you reload, the 9X23 can be used as the parent cartridge case with .38 ACP load data.
You can also fire the .38 ACP (NOT the .38 super) in the 9mm Largo.
EDIT: Further thoughts. Here's the thing. Spanish quality has been all over the map, even within runs of the same gun. I have no doubt that some guns chambered in 9mm Largo can take the pressure of 9mm Super and even 9X23 winchester, while others are really at their max with the factory Largo loading. There's no real way to know which gun will do what without trying it, which might mess up said gun... so why try it? Stick to what the gun was meant for.0 -
What jonk said, exactly. Used to be a local dealer who reworked Star Supers from 9mm Largo to 38 Super. I know of 2 of them that didn't hold up well.
W.D.0 -
quote:Originally posted by arkbacks
Is the 9mm largo and the 9x23 the same round and can it also be used in the largo pistol also?
The two cartridges are dimensionally similar externally, but they're not the same.
Ballistically the 9x23 Winchester is quite a bit more powerful, being equivalent to a hot-loaded .357 magnum, and it uses much stouter brass in its cases to handle the extra pressure.
The key point here is that the 9mm Largo is loaded to about 30,000 PSI while the 9x23 Winchester can run as hot as 50,000 PSI.
In theory, that means running 9x23 though a Spanish largo pistol can completely ruin it, potentially blowing up the gun like a grenade, risking injury to the shooter and bystanders.
In practice, the 9x23 Winchester brass is probably the strongest pistol brass out there; its either made from cut down .223 RIFLE cases (which run up to 55,000 PSI) or equivalent quality purpose-made brass. Its going to be pretty tough to rupture a case. On the other hand, running overpressure rounds though any gun can pretty easily break slide stops, deform or break slide/barrel locking lugs, and cause other damage.
Also, in particular the Star model A Spanish guns for 9mm largo were somewhat overbuilt, and can handle higher pressures. I've seen more than one report of people running 9x23 Winchester through these guns in quantity with no problem.
But just because you can get away with this for a short time, or even a long time, doesn't make it safe or a good idea. Would I do it? Hell no, and my advice to others is not to try it either.
If you want to shoot 9x23 (and its a great round) just buy a gun in that caliber. There are plenty of them out there, and if you wanted to then run .38 super or 9mm largo through the 9x23 gun, then THAT should be safe.0 -
I believe the Largo was originally the 9x23 Bergmann that was developed for European militaries who wanted a hotter cartridge than the 9x19. The Spaniards termed it the 'Largo'. The cartridge has been subsequently loaded up and down, with a lot of ammunition performing just on a par with the 9x19. Astra discovered that if their chambers were made to accept the semi-rim of the .38 ACP (another 9x23), that it would function an M400, although not as hot of a cartridge as the Bergmann. They started marking those guns '9mm/38'. The later .38 super may be no hotter than the original Bergmann. Around the turn of the 20th century, people were coming up with some pretty snappy stuff, including the 7.63x25 and the 9x25, and the guns were good for it. But today, none of these cartridges are, pressure-wise, in the class of the 9x23 Winchester. It is advisable to fire the Winchester cartridge ONLY in guns specifically made for it. 0 -
JUST TO NOTE; some time ago I picked up a couple 100 rds. of factory.38 auto ammo on the auction side (both Rem. and Win.) for use in my Star model B (super). After firing several rounds, I noticed recoil was more than expected. I ran some accross the coronagraph (in my .38 super/1911) and velocities were in excess of the factory .38 super ammo. 0
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