S&W J-Frame Airweight In .32 H&R magnum
I think that my neighbor was sold a bill of goods at a local gunshop regarding the purchase of a NIB S&W Hamerless J-Frame Airweight in .32 H&R Magnum. I don't know the model number but I went through the S&W online catalog to find any J-Frame or Bodyguard style in .32 H&R Magnum and could not find any in this catalog. So my guess is that they discontinued either the model and/or caliber. My neighbor knows practically next to nothing about firearms. She purchased it for conceal-carry purposes. The problem is that we can't hit the target. (I realize that this weapon was developed for very close quarters.) At 25 yards we couldn't even see the rounds hitting the dirt on the backstop. At about 15 yards it was hitting high over the top of a 5 foot metal target stand with the top of the target at about eye level. At about 7 yards we were hitting the top of the target. (We had been aiming at the center of the target at all distances.) We practically had to be within arms-length to hit near the center of the target. We both are NOT that bad of shots as we do fairly well with my Taurus .357 magnum at 25 and even at 50 yards. We have used good Hornaday ammo, my own reloads at the .32 H&R Magnum strength AND reloaded ammo down to an average .32 S&W Long load. We had the same results for whatever type of ammo that was used. I'm having a bit of a problem fathoming that the trajectory climbs that much at these distances - particulary at 15 yards or less. I wish she would have contacted me BEFORE she purchased the piece. She told me that she really wanted at least a .38 Special when she went into the gunshop. However, they told her that because she was so petite that the .32 H&R Magnum was better for her. She doesn't want to trade it in because she'll probably take a bath on it if she did so. Any ideas, suggestions or constructive criticism would be appreciated.
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Take that gun back to the shop and make them put 12 rounds into a 10" round paper plate at 7 yards. Something is wrong.
Any gun {I've had RG's[xx(] that could do it} should hit point of aim at 20 feet or so.0 -
I've had similar problems in the past with both S & W and Ruger, fixed sight revolvers.
The only thing that worked for me was to load with a much heavier bullet then normal for the caliber. Of course this necessitied a substantial reduction in the powder charge.
All my experience was with the .38 Special. The only heavier bullet I could suggest for the .32 would be the TMJ 30 carbine bullet loaded backward as a wadcutter. I use this bullet when reloading for the 7.5mm Swede military revolver.0 -
S&W did have a problem with early M331Ti pinned front sights & changed to a forged front sight. Since you provided neither photos nor exact model number, we really can't tell if that is the problem.
Depending upon the type sights, caliber, & ammo used, "Kentucky windage" is often needed for snubbies. For defense use, we don't usually fire them at targets further than 7 yds. I agree, a .38 spec is by far a better choice for a J-frame snubbie. For a female shooter, a Ladysmith would have been best. Sounds like, instead of ordering what she needed, the gun shop sold her a gun they wanted to get rid of.
It's possible that a trigger job & installation of a Woolf spring kit might help with accuracy. Cost should be reasonable.
Neal0 -
I have a model 60 in 38 special. 2 inch fixed sights that when I was shooting it alot and I could see the sights, one gal milk jugs at 100 yards or beer bottles out of the air if you or I threw them was easy.
You need to shoot more and learn to hold the pistol and it will shoot where its pointed. It a feedback loop that you must tune with practice.
added With fixed sights you have two choices, lets say it shoots high and left; you aim low and right or you change how you hold the pistol to get it to shoot point of aim.
In nearly 50 of shooting I can't recall any solid frame wheel guns that didn't shoot at least ok if not good. Seen lots of autoloaders that were a waste of ammo.0 -
Thanks for the good feedback. I agree that the gun most likely was sitting on the shelf for a long time. In fact, now that I think about it the plastic case that she carries it in seemed to me that was much larger than it needed to be and it had NO custom cutouts - only foam rubber on both sides. It was a S&W case but definetley much larger than need to be.
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
S&W did have a problem with early M331Ti pinned front sights & changed to a forged front sight. Since you provided neither photos nor exact model number, we really can't tell if that is the problem.
Depending upon the type sights, caliber, & ammo used, "Kentucky windage" is often needed for snubbies. For defense use, we don't usually fire them at targets further than 7 yds. I agree, a .38 spec is by far a better choice for a J-frame snubbie. For a female shooter, a Ladysmith would have been best. Sounds like, instead of ordering what she needed, the gun shop sold her a gun they wanted to get rid of.
It's possible that a trigger job & installation of a Woolf spring kit might help with accuracy. Cost should be reasonable.
Neal0 -
Charlie,
Thanks for the feedback. Let's see? I'm 60 years old, been shooting since I was about 8 or 9 and had 8 years in the infantry. I think that at this point I should know how to hold a firearm - LOL?!?!
quote:Originally posted by charliemeyer007
I have a model 60 in 38 special. 2 inch fixed sights that when I was shooting it alot and I could see the sights, one gal milk jugs at 100 yards or beer bottles out of the air if you or I threw them was easy.
You need to shoot more and learn to hold the pistol and it will shoot where its pointed. It a feedback loop that you must tune with practice.0 -
Thanks for the suggestion!
quote:Originally posted by rufe-snow
I've had similar problems in the past with both S & W and Ruger, fixed sight revolvers.
The only thing that worked for me was to load with a much heavier bullet then normal for the caliber. Of course this necessitied a substantial reduction in the powder charge.
All my experience was with the .38 Special. The only heavier bullet I could suggest for the .32 would be the TMJ 30 carbine bullet loaded backward as a wadcutter. I use this bullet when reloading for the 7.5mm Swede military revolver.0 -
The J frame H&R Magnum is a great little shooter. Check auction side they go for fair money.
I have a couple and are fun to shoot. They are accurate shooters.0 -
quote:Originally posted by nmyers
Sounds like, instead of ordering what she needed, the gun shop sold her a gun they wanted to get rid of.
This.
I also agree with just about everything else already said.
IMO, .38 special with light (eg wadcutter) loads is perfectly suitable for anyone with a weak grip, and ammo is both cheaper and more readily available than anything in the .32 class. Cheap ammo is important to get in lots of practice. .32s work best for gun nuts and for people who inherit old guns in that caliber!
Anyway, your neighbor has what she has.
I'd add that even though many of them will actually do so, its simply not reasonable to expect a fixed sight snubnose revolver to shoot exactly to point of aim at 50 yards. Even 25 yards is pushing it a little bit. In both cases, you'd expect to have to use some "Kentucky windage" (ie adjusting point of aim to compensate for actual bullet impact vs sight picture).
The standard for these guns is 7 yards, and that's where your testing should start.
I've never seen a snubnose gun (even some pretty lousy ones) that wasn't "on the paper" at 7 yards, though I have seen a *LOT* of shooters who couldn't hit the side of a barn with one. The combination of thin, small and low-profile "gutter" type sights, the sort sight radius, and especially the long heavy double action trigger work together to make shooting these guns well particularly challenging, even for shooters who do fairly well with bigger guns.
Before you do anything about the gun itself, make sure that the problem is REALLY the gun, and not the shooter. Shoot it single action, from a rest SLOWLY, and see what happens. Make sure you get a nice STRONG grip to minimize the effect of RECOIL (which can throw your shots UPWARDS due to muzzle rise!).
If the is DA-only "stage" the trigger (pull slowly until you feel the last "click" before it fires. .. THEN hold and pull the rest) to try and minimize the effect of "yanking".
Make sure you use an absolutely meticulous and consistent sight picture. If you can't see the sights with absolute clarity, put on your reading glasses, and/or paint the sights with bright colored paint to help.
If (and only if) you can get a tight group that is substantially off the point of aim, then you'll know the sights aren't regulated correctly. If you can't get a tight group, the issue is probably the shooter, not the gun.
At that point, you can either try different ammo to see if the gun will print better, or adjust your sight picture. Many guns will shoot to different points of aim with different types of ammo even at relatively short distances, mostly due to recoil effect.
If you've tried all these things, and the gun shoots tight groups that are WAY away from the point of aim, then you know the problem is with sight regulation. If so, either return the gun to where it was purchased from (if they really give you a hard time you could try exchanging it for credit), or call Smith and Wesson and have them fix/regulate it.0 -
What beantownshootah said +1. 0 -
Nothing wrong with the 32 H&R as a self defense round.
Look at the receipt and see if it says NIB. If not then you are going to have to haggle. Take the gun back to the seller and ask for a refund or exchange.
If it is NIB send in the paperwork and get Smith to fix it under their lifetime warranty.0 -
BTS is right on the money, make 100% sure it's the gun that's inaccurate, not the operator. I have had, and still have, several 3" and under revolvers of the S&W, Dan Wesson, Rossi, Ruger, etc... variety, and even with a good trigger stage and plenty of practice they are NOT easy guns to shoot 10-ring groups at distances much longer than my hallway at home. (Heck, for me I'm thrilled to keep them all in the 8 ring at 20 yards!) When properly held and the correct sight picture is used, I have never seen one shoot as off the mark as is being described.... but anything is possible.
Based on what I read in the post, and of course not seeing this myself so this is merely a semi-educated guess; my first thought is the front sight was placed too high in the notch, and the sights were at a "center" hold not a 6-o'clock hold. With a small barrel and very short sight radius that'll put them plenty high on a target even at short range.
In any event, rest it solidly and shoot it smoothly to see whether it is the sights or the operator that need a touch of adjustment. If she still doesn't like it, sell it on GB and help her get one that'll be better for her needs. [:)]0
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