AR-15 Shopping Basics
I was told by a friend that when looking for an AR, to make sure it had forward assist, dust cover, and deflector. It seems the newer models I see do not have those items and seem to be casting that as a positive in their ads. Is my friend correct or not?
Thanks,
Arnold
Thanks,
Arnold
0
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Yep. That good ol' forward assist is essential for jamming a bent or dirty cartridge into your chamber. Seriously, I wouldn't ever use it myself. At least in my unit, we were taught that if the cartridge wouldn't fully chamber using only the power of the bolt spring, cycle the action and get a cleaner/straighter cartridge in there instead. [:)] The dust cover has its uses and may be worth getting. It helps a bit in keeping out grit and twigs if you are out in the sticks for a while. The deflector? I never saw the need, being a right handed shooter. A lefty might want it. 0 -
Not adding those items keeps the costs down and potentially improves reliability (fewer parts to break means fewer breakages... most of the time).
Without knowing your intended use, it's nearly impossible to speculate as to whether those are necessary/desireable on a gun you would purchase.0 -
Thanks, I guess that explains why some of the more expensive ones do not have those items.
Arnold0 -
Absence of these few very simple features begs the question of how many other non-obvious corners were cut in the gun's manufacture.
Not that their presence is a guarantee of a quality product, but their ommission is a clear sign that the rifle is of the absolute cheapest construction they could possibly get by with.
EDIT:
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
The forward assist was an addition to the original AR-15, because of the powder fouling, from incorrect powders, that were originally loaded.The USAF was the first branch to adopt Stoner's design as their M16, which had no forward assist mechanism. They were issuing ammunition loaded with the correct powder and experienced no stoppage problems with these rifles, nor did Army Special Forces and Navy SEAL personnel who tested them in the field.
When it came to selling the Army on this design as a standard issue weapon all of their previous bolt and semiauto rifles, subguns and handguns had given the shooter the ability to push the bolt or slide forward into battery in an emergency even if debris and/or fouling (not 'bent ammunition') were present. At the Army's insistence Stoner added the forward assist mechanism to the model they eventually adopted (M16A1).
This rifle's infamous, powder related stoppage problems in the early days didn't begin to rear their head until after this model had been adopted for general issue by the Army and large amounts of ammunition began to be contracted. The only change made to the rifle itself in response to it's frequent stoppage issue was chroming the chamber and bore to prevent corrosion in harsh environments.0 -
eagleintexas13,
I take the other fork in the road. While these items are not essential, they don't in reality add much to the cost. The dustcover is the best of those three features, and no one likes hot brass from a semi or fully automatic, finding its way down our shirt. That is the shell deflector. The cost cutting measures that usually go along with those cuts are non-chrome lined barrel,and less polished trigger group parts. As far as improving reliability without these features...HOGWASH.
The forward assist was an addition to the original AR-15, because of the powder fouling, from incorrect powders, that were originally loaded. The fouling would build up around the gas tupe in the upper reciever, and slow/hinder bolt operation. A quick hit or two of the forward assist, would chamber the round, and perhaps keep the GI alive, while in firefight.
There are enough models out there under $1000.00 that have all the features, to not skip over them.
When buying one for the first time, get one made by a GOOD, well known manufcturer. Most all of thm are good, but the ones to avoid are Hesse/Blackthorne/Vulcan Arms(essentially the same company, renamig themselves to outrun quallity issues), and CAI(Century Arms)Some of the better, affordable ones are Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms, Windham Weaponry(old Bushmaster plant), STAG ARMS, Armalite, Olympic Arms, and of course Colt(you will never loose your money on this one, even though your initial purchase will be more).
If you are in a state where the 1994 ban did not sunset(like NY), you might want to look for a good usd Pre-ban.
Best0 -
For military uses, these items make sense. A deflector keeps the emerging fired cartridge case from smacking a lefty (who is creeping up on the stock) across the beak, and with one in place it's now Ok for lefty or righty to shoot.
Dust covers keep sand and grit out of the action during down times (at least they're supposed to).
Forward assists are great to push the bolt forward into full battery should a situation arise when you cant "let it slam" in order to stay quiet.
If you don't intend on needing things for situations like these, not having them is no big deal. You rarely see them on dedicated target guns because they're not needed..and these can be VERY pricy.
More important is barrel twist rate for the ammo you intend to use. 1-9" is all-around, but 1-7" can stabilize extra-long (heavier) bullets; I have them in each rate of twist and both work fine with 69 gr bullets and under.
Chrome-lined bores can last longer but might not be as accurate as a stainless one, again I have both types and both types honestly shoot better than I do.
Mil-spec guns are made to a higher quality standard than 'hobby-grade" guns...again I have both types, but hobby guns are great for the vast majority of civilian AR shooters. I have 2 of the 100% mil-spec vs. 3 "hobbys", etc. So far all are humming along just fine.
Piston vs direct impingement gas guns are the latest brawl (One is a piston, 4 are DI in the quiver). I can't say from experience one is more reliable than the other, both types run just fine if properly maintained, etc...
Coolest thing about the AR is you can tinker with it or add or delete stuff and make it 100% your own without breaking the bank. Your imagination and budget are the true parameters of what you should look for in an AR...read the unbiased reviews and get the best you can afford.0 -
quote:Originally posted by Riomouse911
For military uses, these items make sense. A deflector keeps the emerging fired cartridge case from smacking a lefty (who is creeping up on the stock) across the beak, and with one in place it's now Ok for lefty or righty to shoot.
Dust covers keep sand and grit out of the action during down times (at least they're supposed to).
Forward assists are great to push the bolt forward into full battery should a situation arise when you cant "let it slam" in order to stay quiet.
If you don't intend on needing things for situations like these, not having them is no big deal. You rarely see them on dedicated target guns because they're not needed..and these can be VERY pricy.
More important is barrel twist rate for the ammo you intend to use. 1-9" is all-around, but 1-7" can stabilize extra-long (heavier) bullets; I have them in each rate of twist and both work fine with 69 gr bullets and under.
Chrome-lined bores can last longer but might not be as accurate as a stainless one, again I have both types and both types honestly shoot better than I do.
Mil-spec guns are made to a higher quality standard than 'hobby-grade" guns...again I have both types, but hobby guns are great for the vast majority of civilian AR shooters. I have 2 of the 100% mil-spec vs. 3 "hobbys", etc. So far all are humming along just fine.
Piston vs direct impingement gas guns are the latest brawl (One is a piston, 4 are DI in the quiver). I can't say from experience one is more reliable than the other, both types run just fine if properly maintained, etc...
Coolest thing about the AR is you can tinker with it or add or delete stuff and make it 100% your own without breaking the bank. Your imagination and budget are the true parameters of what you should look for in an AR...read the unbiased reviews and get the best you can afford.
I pretty much agree what the above poster has stated but I would like to add that piston guns tend to be a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit more reliable and gas or direct impingement guns tend to be a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit more accurate.0 -
I have very little to add here, except to say that there are any number of cheap guns with these features, and expensive ones without them. They're not purely a function of cost.
My "answer" is to get the gun that best suits YOUR NEEDS.
If you're taking this to war, by all means, get all the mil-spec features.
If this is a purely target or recreational gun, you can probably live without a forward assist and dust cover. (I think the forward assist has always been a little controversial).
Lefties like integral shell deflectors. Some people who reload their ammo don't, feeling that the deflector is likely to ding-up the brass. (You can always put some stick-on thin foam on there, if this is a problem).
Other than that, I don't think having these things really HURTS.0 -
eagleintexas13,
It's pretty much true that those pieces are not only not necessary they can be a detriment in many situations.
While I agree it cuts costs down on overall production, those pieces don't really do anything beneficial. As noted above, the 'forward assist' just jams a cartridge in harder and makes it harder to pull out. Once in a while, when I didn't get a full 'spring slam close' on my rifle, did it fully seat and turn the bolt to it's proper locking position. Dust gets in under the cover all the time. So does fine mud. And, it does nothing once it's opened from firing.
As far as the deflector goes it's nice if you left handed shooters using the rifle. Otherwise, if you are right handed it doesn't do you any good. It bounces the cases forward instead of angled back at 45 deg. The M16A1 that carried in the early eighties didn't have a deflector and I never had any issues with it configured that way.
Added:
Sorry, I forgot to add what I DO think is important on an AR. Twist is very important. The best twist for .223/5.56 NATO IMO is 1-8" 1-7" will stabilize bullets so heavy/long that you can't seat them in a .223 case safely (ogive goes below the neck) So, it isn't necessary. 1-9" will stabilize up to 77 gr. short ogive bullets if pushed hard in most barrels. So, without having to push hard, it's much easier to just get a 1-8" twist. Short or long, that will suffice for anything you can feed out of an AR magazine.
Buttstock-get one that fits what you are doing. Don't spend extra $$'s on a PRS if you don't plan on doing that with it. A simple A2 with a pad taped on will work just as well for bench work. A step up from the standard el-cheapo collapsible stocks is recommended if you want a collapsible. They are pretty much thirty dollar junk and the first time you hit it on something or it falls, all kinds of plastic will break. Magpul and Rock River make good 'tweener' levels that work better and hold up better.
I also suggest getting a good flat-top and matching rear/front sights. Then get an optic that fits your idea of what the rifle will function as.
Get a good sling/bipod system. AR's are very accurate and with a bipod can be shot out to 1000 yds. Even the 16" barrels can accurately get that far. The bipod that allows you to sling carry the rifle will make your longer treks a lot easier. If carrying at the ready, a tactical sling is really nice to have.0 -
And make sure it is chambered for 5.56...... 0
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