Skip to main content
Help Center Community Shop

what is considered 98%

rp85
hello;

bought a pistol that dealer the listed as in "98% condition". what should i expect in a pistiol (auto) if listed in 98% condition?

thanks for any input.

rp
0

Comments

9 comments

Date Votes
  • perry shooter
    written descriptions can be very subjective. You could take two different people and show them the same firearm one might say he thought it was 98% and the other person might say it he thought it
    was 85% . Pictures like Locust Fork and some others are the only way
    other then a HANDS-ON inspection are the only way you can judge the condition matches the price asked. I have a 1911 Commercial made the first month of production It has 98% bright blue and 100% fire blue small parts . But due to being stored in a leather holster [V][V][V][V][V]. The 2% are very very deep pits front sight is almost GONE/eaten away [V][:(][:(][:(][:(]
    0
  • rp85
    thanks for reply;

    the 98% pistol i received, inside the machined areas of slide is comletely covered in a black gunk, inside the frame/ trigger area is covered in a black gunk, the face of the hammer is showing ware, the inside of the barrel is black with fowling, even the top of magazine follower has dings and scrapes. hard to believe this is a 98% condition pistol.

    pictures taken to document issues.

    thanks for reply.

    rp
    0
  • tsr1965
    rp85,

    As perry shooter says, it is very subjective based on an individual basis, and also based on the experience the individuals involved, have in firearms, and firearms collecting.

    I had one guy here at work, ask me what a 1892 Winchester was worth. It had an octagon barrel, chambered in 38 W.C.F., and it was "OLD". I told him, that I did not know without seeing it in person, or at least seeing real good pictures of it. He asked me for a ball park, sans pictures or seeing it. So trying to teach this gentleman something, I showed him, in an old blue book, that it is worth this much in 100% condition, and it is worth this much in 10% condition. Next words out of his mouth..."so it could be worth this much?"...pointing toward the 100%. I told him yes, if it had the box, and paper's, and had never been fired, other than the factory. Well, then came out it had no box or paper's, and it had some notches cut in the stock, etc.....

    When I finally got a look at it in person, it was a 30-40% gun at best. Forend cracked, stock had the notches, had been sanded at some time. No case colors, or bluing, just brown patina, frosty bore, missing rear sight. He asked me if I was interested. I told him, if it shot decent with the frosty bore, I might be. He said, but it is "OLD". I asked how much, and he asked me what condition I thought it was in, and I told him 30-40%, and why. He again said, well"it is OLD...but I think it is in near 100% for its age". I told him, it should look as it did from the factory, in the box, and unfired, but 100 years old, to be 100%.

    It was the same rifle we were both looking at, but thru two different sets of eyes. One with expeerience, and one with antiquiteous..."it is old". That leads to the next thing..rarity. There are a couple things that make a collectable firearm rare, and one is shear number's, or should I say, the lack of. Low production numbers of a popular name brand, and model, are sure to be rare, and in demand.

    The other is, very high condition, based on a high age. The older a firearm gets, usually, the worse its condition gets, unless properly maintained. However, rarity alone, does not preclude value, or price...rarity, and demand, together determing price.

    Hope this helps bring together, as to why we need to see things, either in person, or photographs.

    Best
    0
  • competentone
    quote:Originally posted by rp85


    the 98% pistol i received, inside the machined areas of slide is comletely covered in a black gunk, inside the frame/ trigger area is covered in a black gunk, the face of the hammer is showing ware, the inside of the barrel is black with fowling, even the top of magazine follower has dings and scrapes. hard to believe this is a 98% condition pistol.




    I don't think "dirty" counts against condition -- though it can hide the condition. "Black gunk" could indicate fairly new/unused condition as manufacturers will often ship firearms with relatively heavy oil coatings. If it's fired some, powder residue can stick to the heavy oil and make it look bad, but its condition isn't necessarily affected.

    As already explained, percent-ratings on condition can be subjective. Best thing for you to do is look for a "consensus" among people with firearm experience to see if they agree with you or the seller who rated it at "98%."

    Start a new thread here with pictures and the title: "Is this pistol '98%' condition?" and see what people's conclusions are.
    0
  • charliemeyer007
    The Blue Book of Gun Values has pic's of rateing. Most folks tend to overrate the condition of guns and cars.

    Gunk/oil/soot is one thing if it wipes off, dings and scratches will be lowering the %.
    0
  • nmyers
    I have a low opinion of those who would sell a dirty gun, especially when it is so dirty you can't properly evaluate the condition. But, having said that, dirt & gunk are not part of the condition; they can usually be cleaned off. You should do that immediately, especially the bore, as the stuff in there could be hiding rust & pitting.

    A statement of condition should describe both the % of original finish remaining PLUS any damage or alteration. Any rust, pitting, scratches, dings, etc should be stated. Of course, digital photos before the sale may avoid this problem.

    Before the invention of digital cameras, I bought a rifle based on the seller's description of "98% finish, all original". I asked him if that meant the finish on the metal AND the wood was original, & he said, "yes". When I received it, I found that the stock had been heavily sanded & refinished. I phoned him to complain, & he said, "Oh, I meant it hadn't been refinished recently."

    Most of us have a story or 2. Just be more careful in the future.

    Neal

    "Trust, but verify." ---- Ronald Reagan

    EDIT: Where we have trouble with the PPGS is when the finish of a gun is worn thin, either through holster wear, handling, or abrasives. You may see blue covering all metal, but it is not the deep or shiny blue the gun originally came with. Some folks would say that, since you don't see any bare metal, that it is still 100%. I would say that if you see half the original luster, then it is a 50% gun. Others may think otherwise.
    0
  • kimi
    Grading the condition of a firearm by percentage is associated with the Photo Percentage Grading System (PPGS), as explained in the annual publication of the Blue Book of Gun Values (BBGV). The PPGS acts as a guideline to grade the exterior surfaces of a firearm. Each issue has about 80 pages of colored pictures of handguns and long guns with a brief description that not only act as a ready reference for comparison to a particular gun, but will help the reader quickly learn about the PPGS, and put them on their way to learning how to grade a gun's condition without the aid of the applicable book in sort order. Basically put, a firearm that is described as being in 98% condition is one that has "extremely light wear" to the metal and wood finish, such as here and there along the sharp edges of the metal for example. In terms of converting the PPGS to specific condition categories such as from "New/Perfect - (100% with or without box)," to the next category down being "Mint - typically 98%-99% condition with almost no observable wear."

    Edit: The Blue Book PPGS does have its problems like you mentioned, but then it is just a guideline, so in this context we should use it as we see fit. All grading systems will be viewed in various ways by different individuals, be they inexperienced or viewed as an expert.
    0
  • SP45
    Although somewhat subjective grading is also very specific. You are looking at the percentage of original finish overall and condition. A gun may have 98% finish but there is minor pitting which doesn't make it a 98% gun. Collectors are very picky about grading as they should be. The difference between a 95 and a 98 can be huge. Also many people are upgrading thelir collection. Buy a 98 and sell the 90%. Anyone who represents a 80% gun for a 95% is either incompetent or intentionally decietfull. Better to grade hard and have the customer be pleasantly supprised. Many times on a vintage rifle I will grade the barrel, receiver and stock individually and explain each piece.
    0
  • SP45
    If you want to see people who do a very good job of rating look at the Amoskeag Auction Catalog. The sell high end firearms 6 times a year and they do it right. (try thelir online catalog) I have bought and sold through them and their descriptions are spot on. Perhaps amatures try for a few extra bucks by over rating a gun but not people who plan on staying in the business.
    0

Please sign in to leave a comment.

Recent Activity

Didn’t find what you’re looking for?