Non-licensee shipping of long guns . . .
Both UPS and FEDEX have refused to allow me to ship long guns to myself . . . !
I was aware of pertinent Federal, State, and Local Law.
I also am aware of and used the pertinent online reference pages at the Federal and State sites:
1.) http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps
2.) http://search.doj.ca.gov/AGSearch/search
I had also contacted and discussed the Law with officials at the Federal and the State levels: BATFE and State Attorney General. I was assured that I was correct ... but no help.
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
Q: May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods?
Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing his or her State of residence.
Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from the Bureau of ATF before they may be moved interstate. The person must notify the mover that firearms are being transported. He or she should also check State and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new State does not violate any State law or local ordinance.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
( Yes ) A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional
=======================
Shipping Firearms
Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States), law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.
Sooooooooo . . . How do I get a carrier to ship legal long guns owned by yours truly, to yours truly?
And yes, again, legal long guns, to the legal owner of said legal items AND within the Federal, State, and Local Laws!
I have attempted to work through this with both UPS and FEDEX and gotten no closer to shipping. Customer Service? What is that ... I have spoken to dozens of employees each who have attempted to drum it into my head that it is illegal, etc., etc., etc.
FEDEX: I went all the way up the chain to Corporate ... and got NOWHERE.
http://www.fedex.com/us/national/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html
UPS: I kept getting passed down the chain, repeatedly. Where ever and when ever I got there ... but the further along the chain I managed to get, the more curt, the more rude, and the more abnoxious the staff: clerks, managers, supervisors became!
I had emailed to Corporate level, thru their system for resolving problems and have received no reply ... although they state a follow through within 24 hours (as I recall). [V] [:(] [:(!]
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
Who here has direct contact with anyone that is somebody, up the chain with any of the carriers? [:(] [?] [:(]
=======================================
Gentlemen, thanks for the feedback:
forgemonkey - I had reasons to go carrier, rather than USPS, however you are correct and it seems that is the sole viable option.
bpost - You gotta be correct, you probably haven't suffered the brain trauma I have ... that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it! [:)] Believe that you put it clear and simple. Unfortunately there have been several things that will get me focused on one point that takes my attention, time and energy. When I'm tracking well ... I do know to sidestep when I happen onto a smelly bunch of BS, rather than strolling through it or stomping there. I had false optimism that they'd read their own policy and/or Federal or State ... NO, most quoted me gobbaly gook that wasn't written in their policy nor in Law. Oh, well! Thanks for some sanity folks! [;)]
nmyers - Right on many points! I had incorrectly had the belief that knowing the Law, having the Law in hand and having all the other items lined up would cut thru most if ... not all of the BS ... Wrong!
andrewsw16 - I agree with your notions about going to the TOP and will have to write a letter as you suggested. It seems after three protracted attempts to reach Corporate ... that they are not reachable to commonfolks by telephone nor by email. I was successfully thwarted each time.
===============================
All of my "intereactions" were polite and proper ... no raised voice, no cussing, no cursing and no threats or trash talk (from me).
Fedex - each just stated the same ... they did not care about the Law, they would not ship regardless.
UPS - that was BS of a different color.
The "Supervisor" first lied about the Law and claimed that she was paraphrasing what was written. Then she stated that she knew it regardless. I informed here that I had the policy on my screen. She then started translating what the English words really meant, regardless of what was written!
She then got to the fact of the matter ... she was finally crystal clear that she does not appreciate firearms and appreciateds owners of firearms less still, and that she will not allow any to be shipped, if she can prevent it, and she stated that she can and will prevent me from shipping anything via UPS!
This UPS "Supervisor" was seething, telling me that she did not care what the Federal, State, or Local Law was and she did not care what UPS policy stated nor what Corporate stated, that she would not allow me to ship nor allow anyone else in UPS to ship anything for me ( PERIOD! ).
I realize after much business with UPS, I am now the "enemy" and it's OK for them to treat me like trash! I do not at this point in time foresee the occassion wherein I will ever ship anything via UPS ... and I believe that I can readily assure myself that the future will be USPS only, no doubt!
Like some folks have said, live long enough and learn things one did not really want to know!
Gentlemen, thanks for some sane suggestions.
I was aware of pertinent Federal, State, and Local Law.
I also am aware of and used the pertinent online reference pages at the Federal and State sites:
1.) http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps
2.) http://search.doj.ca.gov/AGSearch/search
I had also contacted and discussed the Law with officials at the Federal and the State levels: BATFE and State Attorney General. I was assured that I was correct ... but no help.
Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
Q: May a person who is relocating out of State move firearms with other household goods?
Yes. A person who lawfully possesses a firearm may transport or ship the firearm interstate when changing his or her State of residence.
Certain NFA firearms must have prior approval from the Bureau of ATF before they may be moved interstate. The person must notify the mover that firearms are being transported. He or she should also check State and local laws where relocating to ensure that movement of firearms into the new State does not violate any State law or local ordinance.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(4) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.28 and 478.31]
Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
( Yes ) A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional
=======================
Shipping Firearms
Special Procedures for Shipping Firearms
Use These UPS Services for Your Firearm Shipment
UPS accepts packages containing firearms (as defined by Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code) for transportation from and between licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18, Chapter 44 of the United States Code), law enforcement agencies of the United States (or of any department or agency of the United States), law enforcement agencies of any state or department agency (or political subdivision of any state), from and between persons not otherwise prohibited from shipping firearms by federal, state or local law, and when such shipment complies with all federal, state and local laws applicable to the shipper, recipient, and package.
Sooooooooo . . . How do I get a carrier to ship legal long guns owned by yours truly, to yours truly?
And yes, again, legal long guns, to the legal owner of said legal items AND within the Federal, State, and Local Laws!
I have attempted to work through this with both UPS and FEDEX and gotten no closer to shipping. Customer Service? What is that ... I have spoken to dozens of employees each who have attempted to drum it into my head that it is illegal, etc., etc., etc.
FEDEX: I went all the way up the chain to Corporate ... and got NOWHERE.
http://www.fedex.com/us/national/rulestariff/prohibited_articles.html
UPS: I kept getting passed down the chain, repeatedly. Where ever and when ever I got there ... but the further along the chain I managed to get, the more curt, the more rude, and the more abnoxious the staff: clerks, managers, supervisors became!
I had emailed to Corporate level, thru their system for resolving problems and have received no reply ... although they state a follow through within 24 hours (as I recall). [V] [:(] [:(!]
http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/resources/ship/packaging/guidelines/firearms.html
Who here has direct contact with anyone that is somebody, up the chain with any of the carriers? [:(] [?] [:(]
=======================================
Gentlemen, thanks for the feedback:
forgemonkey - I had reasons to go carrier, rather than USPS, however you are correct and it seems that is the sole viable option.
bpost - You gotta be correct, you probably haven't suffered the brain trauma I have ... that is my excuse and I'm sticking to it! [:)] Believe that you put it clear and simple. Unfortunately there have been several things that will get me focused on one point that takes my attention, time and energy. When I'm tracking well ... I do know to sidestep when I happen onto a smelly bunch of BS, rather than strolling through it or stomping there. I had false optimism that they'd read their own policy and/or Federal or State ... NO, most quoted me gobbaly gook that wasn't written in their policy nor in Law. Oh, well! Thanks for some sanity folks! [;)]
nmyers - Right on many points! I had incorrectly had the belief that knowing the Law, having the Law in hand and having all the other items lined up would cut thru most if ... not all of the BS ... Wrong!
andrewsw16 - I agree with your notions about going to the TOP and will have to write a letter as you suggested. It seems after three protracted attempts to reach Corporate ... that they are not reachable to commonfolks by telephone nor by email. I was successfully thwarted each time.
===============================
All of my "intereactions" were polite and proper ... no raised voice, no cussing, no cursing and no threats or trash talk (from me).
Fedex - each just stated the same ... they did not care about the Law, they would not ship regardless.
UPS - that was BS of a different color.
The "Supervisor" first lied about the Law and claimed that she was paraphrasing what was written. Then she stated that she knew it regardless. I informed here that I had the policy on my screen. She then started translating what the English words really meant, regardless of what was written!
She then got to the fact of the matter ... she was finally crystal clear that she does not appreciate firearms and appreciateds owners of firearms less still, and that she will not allow any to be shipped, if she can prevent it, and she stated that she can and will prevent me from shipping anything via UPS!
This UPS "Supervisor" was seething, telling me that she did not care what the Federal, State, or Local Law was and she did not care what UPS policy stated nor what Corporate stated, that she would not allow me to ship nor allow anyone else in UPS to ship anything for me ( PERIOD! ).
I realize after much business with UPS, I am now the "enemy" and it's OK for them to treat me like trash! I do not at this point in time foresee the occassion wherein I will ever ship anything via UPS ... and I believe that I can readily assure myself that the future will be USPS only, no doubt!
Like some folks have said, live long enough and learn things one did not really want to know!
Gentlemen, thanks for some sane suggestions.
0
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Just mail it.
When asked; "does the package contains anything perishable, dangerous, liquid or hazardous". your reply is, "no". Please add delivery confirmation, thank you.
Why beat yourself over the head with a shovel?0 -
Well, I'm assuming you pursued this because you don't have a post office close to you.
I have been shipping guns, both long & handguns, by the common carriers for many years. I have never been asked to show the FFL of the recipient. But, maybe I'm lucky to have knowledgeable clerks working in my hubs. You haven't told us where you attempted to ship from. There have been several changes over the years. Currently, UPS will accept firearms only at their hub, or if you have a scheduled pickup; Fedex is the same, PLUS you can ship any firearm from any Fedex Office store.
One trick that may help if you have a clerk who hasn't been trained properly is to declare the contents IN WRITING "Firearm for repair". Most of them have been told a nonlicensee can ship a firearm for repair, but they may not remember the details.
Talking/writing to corporate officials at either common carrier is like trying to teach a cat how to sing: It is a waste of your time, & it annoys the cat.
Neal0 -
Skip middle management and send a complete documentation of who said what to whom directly to the president of each corporation. I have found middle management will usually blow you off. The president is more political and likes to maintain public relations. Ask him to check on it and to get back to you, please. 0 -
What a shame political correctness has invaded logistics. 0
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