168 grain Match BTHP
Why is the .308 168 grain match BTHP used by so many when it drops so much past 300 yards?
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The amount of drop is dependant on which 168 grain BTHP you are using. Which ones were you referring to? I kknow, with the 168 grain A-max, I can reach 800 yards pretty easily. I also know the Berger VLD 168 are extremely ballistically fit too.
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Sorry. This one
.308 Federal Gold Medal 168gr. Match Ammo
[GM308M]
This is .308 Federal Gold Medal 168gr. Match Ammo. These world renowned loads combine the legendary Sierra MatchKing Boat-Tail Hollow Point bullet with Federal's proprietary delivery system. Stringent manufacturing controls give you what many experts and international shooters consider the most accurate match round available from a factory. World-class competitors, as well as military and law enforcement officials, choose Gold Medal when it counts the most. This ammo is packed in 20rd. boxes.0 -
I culled this from another site called Sniper Central regarding the ammo you're talking about. For a long time this was about the only thing that was accurate, available, and did what the shooter and Agency wanted; hit the intended target without a huge risk of ricochet or massive overpenetration. Ya gotta remember, most PD sniper shots fall under 200 yards, are often in an urban setting, and this round is a very good one accuracy wise.
Law Enforcement Applications
Note: The Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr load has for a long time been the defacto standard for law enforcement use and for good reason, it has always been a very accurate factory loading and it has served well. The Sierra Match King bullet used in the Federal GMM load, and many other factory match loads, does tend to fragment on impact with the jacket seperating from the lead core and then the lead core tends to penetrate fairly deep. This needs to be kept in mind when planning your shot and insure there is a suitable backstop behind the target.
Because of the fragile nature of the Match King bullet, the FBI conducted some tests a while ago and concluded that the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet was the most suitable bullet at that time for punching through glass and a factory Federal loading using that bullet has been included in this list as well. This load is not a match grade load but is still loaded to high commercial standards which typically will yield sub MOA performance from precision rifles. Keeping some of these rounds on hand for glass busting is a good idea, though routine confirmation of zero adjustments will need to be implemented.
The polymer tipped bullets are designed to expand rapidly, and lend themselves well to situations where over penetration is a concern, which for Law Enforcement can be quite often. We have included a HSM load using the Hornady 155gr Amax bullet which will deliver high energy with a bit less penetration which may work in these scenarios. Of course, extensive testing of any load should be conducted before adopting it as an agency standard.
F-168gr : Federal Gold Medal Match .308 Win 168gr HPBT (2600fps)
F-TBBC : Federal Premium .308 165gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw (2700fps)
HSM Amax : HSM 308-12 308 Win 155gr AMAX Match (2875fps)
Bullet Drop (Inches)
50y 46m 100y 91m 200y 183m 300y 275m
F-168gr -0.1 Zero -4.5 -15.9
F-TBBC -0.1 Zero -4.3 -15.9
HSM Amax -0.2 Zero -3.4 -12.6
Energy (Muzzle: F-168gr = 2520 Ft-Lbs., F-TBBC = 2670, HSM Amax = 2844)
F-168gr 2336 2170 1855 1580
F-TBBC 2420 2185 1775 1425
HSM Amax 2636 2441 2086 1772
Wind Drift (Inches) 10mph Crosswind
F-168gr 0.2 0.7 3.2 7.6
F-TBBC 0.2 1.0 4.2 10.0
HSM Amax 0.2 0.7 3.0 6.90 -
Trajectory can be adjusted for. Accuracy cannot. That specific loads ability, to punch tiny groups, is why it is favored. It, and it's larger brethern, the Federal GM load, with the 175 grain SMK, are the GOLDEN STANDARD, by which all other's are judged for accuracy.
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The drop can easily be compensated for in a match. What they want is a bullet which is long and heavy enough to retain supersonic velocity because a bullet will buffet and be moved off target somewhat when it passes through the transonic range.
A lighter bullet sets out faster but loses its velocity faster. In ww1 our Ball M1 with 152 grain bullet was known to be greatly outranged by ball mk.7 with its 174 grain bullet, or the French Balle D with 198 grain bullet or the German schweres spitzgeschoss with 196 grain bullet. This was in machine guns used for indirect fire.
Thing is, our ordinance bureau actually thought the range would be 4800 yards because they hadn't included the effect of air resistance in their calculations![:0]0 -
Thank you! These answers helped me understand part of what I kept missing. Semper Fi 0 -
TEUFELHUNDE,
This bullet (Sie. 168 SMK) has been an accuracy standard for a long time. It reaches most competition distances while still very stable. I don't know where you got the 300 yds. from but it's effective range is considered to be 800 yds. It's weakness is it doesn't reach 1000 yds. @ sea level std. temp while above the supersonic range. Most of the problem lies with it's short Boat-tail. It also has a relatively short ogive, and that gives it a slight disadvantage for keeping it's speed. Again, though, out to given ranges under cooler conditions it's still a very accurate bullet.
One other thing that is now done with this bullet is using 1-10" twists instead of 1-12" twists. That helps stabilize the bullet through the transonic range (dropping from above to below the speed of sound). All bullets are affected by the transonic range. But depending on physical make-up of the bullet and twist, some come through it with a lot less disruption. Anyhow, 1-10" twisted barrels have always been available to competition shooters, but those who chose this bullet for it's medium range accuracy tended to go more with 1-12" twisted barrels. That was based on the old principle of not overtwisting so that any imperfections in the bullet would be exaggerated. That philosophy has kind of gone away because of much tighter tolerances in bullets of today versus bullets of even twenty years ago.
And of course what everybody else said, you can adjust for elevation. And in most cases, the match isn't fired at sea level std. Temp. It's fired well above that. And, as long as the bullet is accurate for the given range, people will use it.0 -
using a 300 yard base line is based on my abilities. I lost my right/dominate eye to pistol concussion. Prior to that I could hit a prairie dog at 800 yards. It took me almost 4 years to start shooting again. Based on my new abilities my top range needs to stay at 300 yards it is very depressing to realize that, but I have excepted it. Now I am looking at what I would call my long distant weapon to a bolt action rifle. I have 2 semi-auto 7.62x39. And with one of them I can keep shots in a 9" pie pan a 300 yards using hand loads and a 4 power scope. So my intent is to buy a bolt action 300 yard rifle I can put a better scope on and get better accuracy. I just assumed I would get a 7.62x39. But, before I buy a bolt action in I started some research and found most police/civilian sniper type shooting is under 300 yards and uses a .308. I really like what Savage has in a LEO model and it comes in either 7.62x39 or .308. So I started looking at what reloads I would use for a .308 and found most just go with the Federal pre-loaded. Thus where I am.
I have a range with loner rifles where I can test fire these loads and see how I do with them. Despite my age I remember shooting is a combination of the rifle, the ammo and the shooter.
Semper Fi0 -
TEUFELHUNDE,
There are glasses and there are scopes that will help you. You need to get used to shooting with your other eye. But, unless you have issues with that eye, there shouldn't really be a need to restrict yourself to 300 yds. That said, lots and lots of deer are taken within 100 yds.
I wish you the best with this.
That said, Sua Sponte Marine! Drive on and do what you can.0 -
TEUFELHUNDE,
The specific cartridge/bullet load you're asking about is part of the Federal Gold Medal Match line of ammunition manufactured by Federal Cartridge Company (now a division of ATK unfortunately).
FGMM ammunition has been universally accepted as a standard by which other ammunition is measured due to the high degree of consistency exhibited by the manufacturer for this line. This ammunition also tends to perform quite well in a larger cross-section of rifles no matter the manufacturer of those rifles. This is not to say that the ammunition will turn a low quality rifle into a target rifle by any means. But it can provide the better groups that the rifle is capable of shooting on many occasions.
Many LEO departments use this ammunition to establish a base line of accuracy for department rifles and go on to use it for field applications because of the consistency.
I will parrot the Federal statement that Sierra Match King bullets 'should not be used for hunting' because of the design. However, Federal provides a very nice section in their website for comparing cartridges and bullets, complete with ballistic tables and graphs:
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/compare/rifle_compare.aspx
Bullet drop is both a short and long explanation. Simply, the bullet exits the muzzle where gravity immediately begins to act on the bullet causing it to fall. Forward Velocity, Ballistic Coefficient and Spin Stability of the bullet will determine the degree of the 'drop' over distances. The longer version is quite involved and really unnecessary in this explanation.
If you feel that the drop exhibited by any cartridge/bullet combination is significant, you can try setting your zero at a distance further from the muzzle such as 200 yards. You can also learn to use a rangefinder in combination with the 'click' adjustments on your scope to avoid the observance of drop.
Best.0
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