.177 pellett in a 17m2 case
when I got very low in 17m2 ammo I bought some 22 nail gun blanks and some pointed .177cal Crossman pellets . they shoot quite well in my marlin 717 17 mach2 spent case ejects fine . wondering why Hornady hasn't made a solid point yet for both 17hms . also do you all think that the 177 pellet might melt being driven from a 17hmr case? in a bull barrel don't worry wont try it. just enquiry .
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Pellets use to be pure lead and very soft. Linotype alloy, very hard is good to perhaps 1800 before it leads bores.
Perryshooter did 22 cal.? pellets driven by primers as a sub caliber round. It would drive the heads and leave the skirts. Perhaps he will explain.
I shoot cast bullets in my S&W model 53 22 Jet. Its a 357 mag necked to 22.
In your case I have never seen a 17 cal mold. I'd be tempted to make solid copper bullets out of wire. P.O. Ackley had controlled expansion hollow points ones for the 220 Swift. Or maybe a tubing bullet along the original Barnes bullets.
added Utube 22 pellets
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOZpy55U-jY0 -
Air gun pellets typically weigh less than half of the weight of a .17 HMR bullet. Pretty sure stability and accuracy will be issues. 0 -
It doesn't answer the question, but I recently saw a fairly interesting youtube video where some guys were firing .22 caliber airgun pellets through .22LR firearms using .22 caliber nail gun blanks for propellant.
The pellets seemed to stabilize and fire fine, and because of the light pellet weight, got a claimed velocity of 2800fps (!!!!). Short range damage was pretty impressive too. Vid here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOZpy55U-jY
Obviously you do this sort of thing at your own risk.
To actually answer the question, firing light pure lead airgun pellets at 2-4x the velocities they were designed for seems to me like a pretty good way to quickly lead up your barrel.
In practice, while initial muzzle velocity would be high, I also don't think a light pellet would retain it well and I'd question both accuracy and velocity at distance.
On the other hand, there ARE specialty heavy airgun pellets you could try that might work better. Here's one pretty extreme example:
http://www.airgunmagazine.co.uk/features/heavy-hitter-177-piledriver-pellet/
Don't think you're likely to actually get any of those for sale, but barring that one, there are several brands of approximately 16 grain 177 airgun pellets out there that are readily available in the USA. That's pretty close in weight to a standard 17 grain .177 rimfire rifle bullet and could be worth a test.
-Eun Din 16.1 grains
-H&N Rabbit Magnum POWER, 16 grains, and copper plated! (should reduce barrel leading. . .I'd check this one out).
-H&N Rabbit Magnum II, 15.74 grains
-H&N Barracuda Magnum 16.36 grains.
See here for one potential source:
http://www.pyramydair.com/a/Ammo/109/calibers_0_177/pw_grain30 -
There once was a little rifle, only a few years back, not more than 5, that was marketed by Cabela's. It used a 209 shotgun primer, to push a 177 caliber airgun pellet.
Word was it separated at the skirt of the wasp shaped pellets.
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Nice research Beantown...I like it!
Something else to take note on, using such case size as the 221 Fireball, 222 Remington, and 223 Remington. along with their 17 caliber counterparts, there a group of shooters, that have developed what they call Blue Dot loads. Usually shooting between 5-9 grains of Blue dot powder, they are mimicking the 22 WMR, and 17 HMR performance levels, with a lot less noise. They have been doing it for years.
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Long, long ago, when I lived in town, the starlings used to annoy me with their arrogance walking and pecking around on the lawn. I had a heavy barreled .220 Swift. I loaded cases with a primer and a .22 skirted pellet. At ranges up to 30 yds. the starlings lost their arrogance and nobody noticed the (very little) noise. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
There once was a little rifle, only a few years back, not more than 5, that was marketed by Cabela's. It used a 209 shotgun primer, to push a 177 caliber airgun pellet.
Word was it separated at the skirt of the wasp shaped pellets.
Best
It was probably THIS:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-209-Hawk-Rifle/706417.uts
You might be able to get around separation at the pellet skirt by shooting the pellets backwards. You can almost certainly get around it by using non-skirted pellets, or even just round lead balls (which are readily available).
Note that this is not a "new" concept. People have been firing small caliber bullets/pellets with primers for over 100 years, and there are multiple contemporary ways you can shoot airgun pellets from conventional firearms using primers (or blanks) to propel them. EG
http://www.primegun.com/prime.htm
http://convert-a-pell.com/
http://www.gundigest.com/article/MexicoLove?print=1
Here's a video of how to convert a centerfire rifle cartridge to fire airgun pellets using a primer. Note that the instructor here is missing a few fingers off his left hand. . .don't know the story there, but its not a good sign! If you skip to 4:20, you'll get the summary of chronographed velocities.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LURS89_O1JU#t=71
Using a shotgun primer, this guy got 805 fps with an 8.5 grain .17 airgun pellet. IMO, that's as much as a decent air rifle, and fairly respectable for something like this.
And here's a totally "crazy" one. . .it converts a conventional compound bow with 70 lb draw weight into 625 fps of .22 caliber airgun pellet speed:
http://airowgun.com/pellet.php
FWIW, despite the characterization of the primer-fired weapons as "not a firearm" with "no legal restrictions" I simply don't think that's true.
In many (perhaps most) jurisdictions, any device that shoots any projectile by means of a chemical charge is legally considered a "firearm". So even though you may be able to purchase the components without a background check, licensing, etc, a primer-fired airgun may still be considered a "firearm" that felons can't possess, that you can't legally shoot in your backyard, etc.0 -
quote:Originally posted by beantownshootah
quote:Originally posted by tsr1965
There once was a little rifle, only a few years back, not more than 5, that was marketed by Cabela's. It used a 209 shotgun primer, to push a 177 caliber airgun pellet.
Word was it separated at the skirt of the wasp shaped pellets.
Best
It was probably THIS:
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Pedersoli-209-Hawk-Rifle/706417.uts
You might be able to get around separation at the pellet skirt by shooting the pellets backwards. You can almost certainly get around it by using non-skirted pellets, or even just round lead balls (which are readily available).
Note that this is not a "new" concept. People have been firing small caliber bullets/pellets with primers for over 100 years, and there are multiple contemporary ways you can shoot airgun pellets from conventional firearms using primers (or blanks) to propel them. EG
http://www.primegun.com/prime.htm
http://convert-a-pell.com/
http://www.gundigest.com/article/MexicoLove?print=1
Here's a video of how to convert a centerfire rifle cartridge to fire airgun pellets using a primer. Note that the instructor here is missing a few fingers off his left hand. . .don't know the story there, but its not a good sign! If you skip to 4:20, you'll get the summary of chronographed velocities.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LURS89_O1JU#t=71
Using a shotgun primer, this guy got 805 fps with an 8.5 grain .17 airgun pellet. IMO, that's as much as a decent air rifle, and fairly respectable for something like this.
And here's a totally "crazy" one. . .it converts a conventional compound bow with 70 lb draw weight into 625 fps of .22 caliber airgun pellet speed:
http://airowgun.com/pellet.php
FWIW, despite the characterization of the primer-fired weapons as "not a firearm" with "no legal restrictions" I simply don't think that's true.
In many (perhaps most) jurisdictions, any device that shoots any projectile by means of a chemical charge is legally considered a "firearm". So even though you may be able to purchase the components without a background check, licensing, etc, a primer-fired airgun may still be considered a "firearm" that felons can't possess, that you can't legally shoot in your backyard, etc.
Interesting0 -
FWIW, I have solid brass adapters for my .222; one uses shotgun primers to propel a .22 cal. pellet and the other allows the shooting of .22 rimfire ammo in the .222 chamber. Accuracy with both is mediocre at best, and I now limit myself to pellets in pellet guns, rimfire ammo in rimfire firearms, and c.f. in c.f. (Obviously)
More to the point, and what prompted me to write, is that Prometheus (out of the U.K., I believe) use to (and may still) offer .22 cal. pellets that consisted of very hard and highly polished head with a narrow "tail" that held a hard nylon skirt to engage the rifling.
I don't know if they offered one in .177 cal. Should be good at high velocities though I seem to recall some difficulty with the steel insert being blown out of it's skirt, which remained in the bore. Try putting a c.f. round past that!0 -
Using industrial .22 blanks is probably a pretty bad (read stupid) idea. I believe the chamber pressure of these with a projectile is much higher than a regular.22. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Bill DeShivs
Using industrial .22 blanks is probably a pretty bad (read stupid) idea. I believe the chamber pressure of these with a projectile is much higher than a regular.22.
Well, this pretty obviously falls into the category of "do at your own risk". EVERY single box of these power/nailgun blanks says not to chamber the rounds in actual firearms. Pretty much the only reason you're even going to try something like this is because you don't have access to real ammo. EG:
https://homemadeguns.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/nail-gun-to-firearm-conversions-china/
In today's world where even ordinary .22LR ammo is hard to get, I could imagine why someone might be tempted to try this.
I think as a matter of practice, real-world pressures are going to be highly dependent on which blank you use as well as which projectile you put on top of it. Blanks come in widely differing power levels, and bullet/pellet weight probably matters too. Some guns are also stronger than others.
There are probably individual combinations of pellets and blanks that don't generate very high pressures, and would be "safe", at least in practice. Obviously, the "primer" only type rounds aren't generating particularly high pressures, and I'd imagine those should be reasonably safe (or at least as safe as this sort of thing can be). Again, you can buy commercial .22LR loads that are primer-only with a lightweight airgun-like bullet on top, eg the Aguila Colibri rounds. The biggest danger there isn't that you'll blow up a gun with one, but rather than you'll inadvertently lodge a bullet in the barrel then follow it up with a REAL .22LR, causing a problem.
In any case yes, I do think the "wrong" combination here could certainly damage or even destroy a gun, and of course pose a serious safety risk to the shooter. EG, see this "testimonial"
quote:http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553291
October 19, 2014, 08:53 PM #11 Lucas McCain
I think it's a stupid idea also. Been there, done that sort of thing.
50 years ago I figured I would try Hilti nail gun loads with 22 cal air gun pellets for some home grown 22 mag loads.
I took my marlin single shot 22 and loaded one up. Pulled the trigger and KA-BOOM. The breech split, the pin that holds the barrel in the breech sheeted off. The cartridge brass was blown back into the firing pin groove. Instant junk gun, trash can candidate! I was very lucky that I did not get seriously injured.0 -
It's generally difficult to blow up a .22 rimfire, but shooting air rifle pellets is one way to attempt it. As a youth I and one of my equally adventurous and dumb shooting friends tried this stunt in an old bolt action .22 rifle. We pried perfectly good bullets out of .22 Long Rifle cases and crammed in air rifle pellets. It took us four or five shots to figure out why nothing was coming out of the muzzle at 220 Swift velocity and vaporizing targets as we had hoped. The pellets stuck in the chamber throat and blew out in their thin centers. Successive shots merely stacked up the mess. The ruptured soft lead centers probably saved us from a case blowout. We managed to pound the sorry leftovers out of the breech. The gun still worked, but was no accuracy champion. Dumb and dumber learned a valuable lesson without injury. 0
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