dark Bore
a friend of mine, who is new in the firearms world asked me what a dark bore on a gun meant , me being new to the hobby too i could not answer his question . anybody know what dark bore means ?
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Just picked up an SKS. The bore is really dark and pitted. Any suggestions as to how to clean it up? 0 -
Great questions to ask.
Rifling is usually shallow in rifles. When the bore is badly corroded, you may not be able to see any rifling left. A dark bore may indicate some scattered pitting, but often means that the entire bore is so corroded you can't see any shiny metal. Sometimes a gun with a corroded bore will still shoot accurately, maybe not.
Frosting means that there is light, scattered corrosion; when you look at it, the "frosting" scatters the light & you don't see the desirable "mirror" finish.
If you look at the ads for milsurp dealers, WW2 rifles will usually have some degree of bore corrosion due to corrosive ammo. But, sometimes they will still fire tight enough groups to be serviceable.
Even bores that look great sometimes have problems. The only sure way to evaluate a bore is with a gunsmith's borescope, which will enable him to see it much better than we can when look through the ends.
Neal
EDIT: You are right, we often have to parse every word in gun descriptions; sometimes folks use words that should be a red flag to us, so we can take nothing for granted. Things that get my fur to stand up are things like "really clean" or "this would be great for a collector" or "has been in my safe for 50 years".
You certainly can clean all the rust out of corroded & pitted areas, so that you can honestly say "no rust". But, it's simply science: rust is ferric oxide, a compound made of oxygen & iron. When it forms, the gun loses the iron in the steel, & you are left with a crater that will always be there, & which lowers value.0 -
A dark bore to me is on the charcoal black side with satin/bead blasted type texture. Usually from corrosive ammo and doesn't easily scrub out. A frosted bore is a dark bore cleaned up. Still has the light pitting the frosting.
Some rifles shoot ok with dark bores, they tend to foul faster so require more cleaning more often to keep up their level of accuracy.
added The crown is the last part of the barrel a bullet sees. High pressure gas acting only on one side of a bullet isn't conducive to accuracy. The throat is important too. If worn out from high pressure gas cutting the bullet can enter the bore crooked/canted. It is forced to rotate about a wrong axis. As soon as it leaves the barrel it will switch to the true axis causing dispersion.0 -
Thanks a lot, the gun I am looking at a 1894 Winchester, I can see very good rifling all the way with very little pitting at all, that you can I see, but it is not a bright bore, it is dark.
I found out all to well about a bore looking "pretty good" on a 32 20 92 I just recently purchased. You might hit a basketball at 50ft The smith with a borescope told the story. I was paying to much attention to the deep part of the bore and not enough to the crown end. Out near the end of the barrel was a mess.0 -
Agree with above; these are good questions.
I'll throw in my two cents.
"Dark bore" is just what it sounds like, the internal surfaces of the bore are dark-colored. Almost invariably this is because they're pitted from corrosion and the pits themselves are full of rust and/or other fouling.
In theory its possible to have a bore that looked dark mostly from dirt/fouling without much pitting, but in practice, something like that would be easily cleaned and any prospective seller would do that first. So almost always "dark bore" = "significantly corroded bore".
"Frosted" is, again, just what it sounds like. There is a fine level of corrosion on the inner surfaces of the barrel, and the metal looks frosted. This is better than "dark bore". Yes, in some cases you might be able to get a dark bore to clean up to a frosted appearance with enough solvents and scrubbing, but certainly not all!
As to how well these things shoot, that depends on how badly they're fouled, how well the remaining rifling holds up, the condition of the muzzle crown, and the intrinsic accuracy of the gun and ammo.
Guns with just some frosting, but everything else OK could potentially shoot like new. Even guns with dark bores and noticeable pitting can sometimes surprise you and still group OK. You never really know for sure until you try.
Edit: quote:"Bore has a visible ring" What would cause something like that?
If the bore were partially obstructed during firing (eg from a bit of mud, snow, or other gunk in the bore), then pressures can dramatically spike behind the obstructed bullet, and the bore can get a "bulge" or "ring" right at that spot.
A "stuck" bullet from a primer only or otherwise defective cartridge could also cause this, though with a powerful centerfire military type rifle, a second shot after that type of true/total obstruction is likely to cause a burst barrel.
In terms of shootability, ringed barrel guns can still shoot perfectly fine, though obviously this sort of thing doesn't help accuracy nor the guns' value. Safety would depend on where the ring is, and how bad it is, but speaking generally, barrel pressure normally goes down more and more as you get away from the chamber, and ringed barrels are usually still safe to shoot. Sometimes fouling may collect in the ringed area.
quote:"Dark bore" usually means "I'm not going to try to clean it because it will look even worse."
There is always a reason a seller will choose not to properly clean a gun.Yes, cleaning it will make the pitting and worn rifling quite a bit more obvious. I think a big part of the reason sellers don't try to clean these things is because doing it correctly typically takes several hours of scrubbing with patches, brushes and solvent, and since it won't increase the sale value of the gun, its just not worth the effort.0 -
I have been collecting guns for a while, usually at gun shows and face to face sales. Computer opened up a new door for finding guns that I just do not find local. The problem is the rating of many of these guns seems to be a bit subjective and that is why I ask this bore question. I think a lot of sellers may or may not understand what they are saying when they place the add and then get the gun back.
For example I was looking at a Winchester that was priced at the high end for the model gun it is. The seller said it had a dark bore with great rifles and no rust. From what you guys tell me a dark bore means there is no question there has to be rust. I understand a 100 year old gun can not be perfect and it is my choice if I pay top dollar for one that is not worth top dollar0 -
All the above said,, when I was a very active shooter, I shot many "dark bores" and shot fine. Wsn't trying for match grade or anything,,just shooting for shooting. 0 -
Just one other thing about bores that I see a lot of. "Bore has a visable ring" What would cause something like that? 0 -
Usually a ring/bulge is formed from an obstruction in the bore when the gun was fired. Stuck bullet from a squib load, mud or ice, leaf cutter bee nest. It the high pressure generated between the obstruction and the projectile. 0 -
Good questions, indeed. Personally I steer clear of buying any guns that have any pits in the bore, but I have made one or two exceptions in the past. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by Barzillia
"Dark bore" usually means "I'm not going to try to clean it because it will look even worse."
There is always a reason a seller will choose not to properly clean a gun.
Or describe the bore's condition in plain English.0
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