Age?/Value of this ammo
I just got a full box of this ammo and am trying to figure out when it was made and its relative value. The picture is not the ammo I have but the label looks the same and the box type seems to be the same. Mine is just like the picture but is labelled
.44 Colt (Old Model) and is a black powder load.
I picked it up at a garage sale yesterday with some other ammo, .22 LR and 5.56 blanks. I know I did well, just not sure how well.
Thanks for any info.
.44 Colt (Old Model) and is a black powder load.
I picked it up at a garage sale yesterday with some other ammo, .22 LR and 5.56 blanks. I know I did well, just not sure how well.
Thanks for any info.
0
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1910 and earlyer 0 -
Head stamp? 0 -
.44 Colt ammo was made until 1940, so the box will be the key. I believe the 'Old Model' ammunition will be the type that actually used a heeled .45 bullet, for use in the converted 1860 Army revolvers which had a .45 barrel. Later stuff uses a smaller-diameter inside-lubricated bullet for what became our traditionally-dimensioned 44 barrels. 0 -
Hi,
We would like to see a photo of your box because there are subtle differences in the boxes and labeling on the box based on the the major box types used by Remington for pistol ammunition. Also box condition has everything to do with value.
My best guess is the box in the photo above (not your box) is from 1911 to 1915 because:
1. It is a two piece box with rounded corners
2. The box is red in color
3. It looks like the load index number is on the box - but the photo isn't good enough to read the numbers
4. The company name on the box is:
REMINGTON ARMS - UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE COMPANY INCORPORATED
AMMUNITION & FIREARMS
UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE WORKS
BRIDGEPORT, CONN. U.S.A.
5. The one photo above is not enough to estimate the condition of the box nor are all aspects of the label legible but what is visible looks good.
Sorry but, can't estimate a value for a box we can't see. Some of the older boxes have been restored which is something to look out for when buying or selling older ammunition. They are not fakes, but they are not original either.
Best,
Heavyiron0 -
Union Metalic owned Remington from about 1888, but the ammunition was marketed seperately until 1910 when the names were combined. In 1912 the head stamp was changed to REM-UMC and continued until 1960. So both the box and the head stamps are key to determining an exact age. The head stamp REM-UMC 44 COLT was used from 1912 until 1944. 0 -
quote:Originally posted by heavyiron
Hi,
We would like to see a photo of your box because there are subtle differences in the boxes and labeling on the box based on the the major box types used by Remington for pistol ammunition. Also box condition has everything to do with value.
My best guess is the box in the photo above (not your box) is from 1911 to 1915 because:
1. It is a two piece box with rounded corners
2. The box is red in color
3. It looks like the load index number is on the box - but the photo isn't good enough to read the numbers
4. The company name on the box is:
REMINGTON ARMS - UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE COMPANY INCORPORATED
AMMUNITION & FIREARMS
UNION METALLIC CARTRIDGE WORKS
BRIDGEPORT, CONN. U.S.A.
5. The one photo above is not enough to estimate the condition of the box nor are all aspects of the label legible but what is visible looks good.
Sorry but, can't estimate a value for a box we can't see. Some of the older boxes have been restored which is something to look out for when buying or selling older ammunition. They are not fakes, but they are not original either.
Best,
Heavyiron
I'll do my best to try and get some pics of mine online. The picture I used was the only one I could find whose top label matched the layout and style of the one on my box. The only difference was the caliber of cartridge. My box also has the rounded corners and red labels and the company address is also identical. The box is comprised of a bottom, an inner sleeve, and a top which opens by lifting straight up.
The headstamp is Rem-UMC
44 Colt
You guys are great! I appreciate the help and will work on the pics.0 -
Using the box (1911 - 1915) and the headstamp (1912 - 1944) your box and cartridges can be dated to 1912 to 1915. I doubt if you can narrow it down any further than that, unless you know someone who has a listing of Load Index Numbers that would be more detailed. 0 -
Cheechako,
A note to set the record straight. Your dates are accurate but the history needs clarification. The history seems to be slightly different depending upon sources. I like the Remington history better (see link at bottom of page).
quote:Union Metallic owned Remington from about 1888
UMC never owned Remington - it was the other way around. Some say E. Remington purchased two small cartridge companies in 1867 including Union Metallic Cartridge Company.
However, Marcus or Marcellus Hartley et al purchased E. Remington & Sons from the Remington family in 1888 and renamed the company Remington Arms. At the same time Hartley et al also owned UMC.
quote:In 1912 the head stamp was changed to REM-UMC and continued until 1960
In 1912 Remington and UMC were combined into a single company called Remington-Union Metallic Cartridge Co. or REM-UMC on headstamped ammunition. REM-UMC is still in business and produces and sells ammunition today under the REM-UMC label today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Arms
http://www.remington.com/pages/our-company/company-history.aspx0 -
heavyiron
I think we agree on the basics. Any disagreement has more to do with semantics.
U.M.C. was owned by Marcellus Hartley. In 1888 he purchased Remington but continued to market the two as seperate entities. In 1910 marketing was combined as REM-UMC. In 1916 the two were formally merged and subsequently reorganized as Remington Arms Company. The headstamp used today is R-P which identifies another of the purchased companies, Peters Cartridge Company.
For all intents and purposes anyone named Remington was absent from the company after 1888. "Remington" was retained simply because of it's sales appeal, much as "Winchester" was used for marketing purposes even though the company was owned by Western Cartridge Company.
Ray0
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